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steamboatclimber
Oct 20, 2004, 6:08 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: There is so much about this dialog that I don't understand. CHP? Chain control? This must be either a mountain or regional thing. Explain this please. I don't even think I've seen a car with chains on in my life. My snowblower has chains. OK, the thing to understand is that A. Minnesotans in general know more about snow driving than any humans ought to know. Lets get that established straight away. But Minnesotans don't know nothing about MOUNTAIN driving in the snow, and sharing the road with people who live in places where it NEVER snows.
The reason Minnesotains know how to drive on snow probably has to do with the fact that even if the roads are frozen for 13 months a year, both chains and studded tires are illegal. They acctually force people to learn to drive on the snow and ice without the assistance on metal on their tires. I grew up in Minnesota and now live in Colorado. I have to say that the people that learned how to drive in Colorado aree no less likely to wreck on some mountian pass. I think the biggest thing to remember about snow and ice driving is that over-confidance will always get you. My mom always said to drive like there are eggs under your pedals and you don't want to break them, and these are not hard boiled eggs.
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dlintz
Oct 20, 2004, 6:12 PM
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In reply to: VIVA LA SUBARU!!!! About one in every four Vermonters drives one.
About one in every four Boulderites doesn't drive one. :lol:
Some great tips here, especially braking before the turn or curve.
d.
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tgreene
Oct 20, 2004, 6:13 PM
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The single most important thing to keep in mind, is to always remember to keep your fuel tank topped off, if you'll be traveling in poor conditions!
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dingus
Oct 20, 2004, 6:34 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: VIVA LA SUBARU!!!! About one in every four Vermonters drives one. About one in every four Boulderites doesn't drive one. :lol:
You know, I know Subaru's. I've owned two of them. The Subarude Superiority Complex can be very annoying to those of us who know thatr if a car can make a person superior it will NOT BE a Subaru! LOL!
They aren't magic carpet rides and in snow do not handle any better than my cheap assed jeep cherokee. In fact, Outbacks are notorious for roll overs! I know I know, you Subarudes are all gasping for air... how can your precious subes be rolling over like Ford Explorers?
Easy... the people who drive them are no smarter after all than the SUV crowd they love to denigrate.
I spit on your Subaru's!
Seriously though, they are merely all wheel drive cars, end of story. Nothing special about them whatsoever and don't you dare take the delicate things off road!
They are cute though. Very cute. Rav cute.
DMT
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sancho
Oct 20, 2004, 6:49 PM
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I grew up in the countryside of MN and also spend a lot of time in the sierra, as such, I am an expert on snow driving :wink:
Here are some general lessons for my fellow L.A. drivers, who by and large are really terriable drivers, especially in conditions other than 80' and sunny.
1. Your big 2wd SUV is a piece of crap in the snow. It is much worse than the little front wheel drive honda that just passed you and will probably get stuck or spin out of control. Go very slow or you will crash. You will then probably roll over and die. (please note that nearly all SOCAL SUVs are 2wd)
2. Do not tailgate, pass or otherwise leave your lane when it is snowing. Stop being a selfish jacka$$ L.A. driver!
3. If you do have 4wd for some reason (like you bought a Land Rover), it does not make you stop any faster. Stop tailgating me!!!
4. Yeah, I don't care if you have ABS, slow down!
5. Again, slow down especially in corners
6. When your big crap SUV does spin out of control, turn gradually into the slide. If you don't understand what this means, please, take the bus.
7. Buy new tires appropriate for what you are doing. Old worn tires significantly reduce traction in wet and snowy conditions.
8. Buy new wipers and wiper fluid. Even though you don't use them in LA, you will in the mountains.
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cgailey
Oct 20, 2004, 6:50 PM
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Am I the first Alaskan to post in this one? All I can say is drive faster and get the heck outta my way! :lol:
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earlethesquirrel
Oct 20, 2004, 6:55 PM
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Drive behind the snowplow and use the reflectors on the side of the road to stay on the road. Don't get too close, they dump sand every once in a while. Don't worry about the windshield. If you live in a mountainous state/area, they get cracked all the time.
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j_from_the_307
Oct 20, 2004, 7:28 PM
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1. Always have an escape plan and make sure you have enough room to execute it. (How long is it going to take me to come to a complete stop? If the guy in front of me tries to stop (assuming similar time to stop), do I have enough room to pull off to the side into that nice snowbank?) Think about your reaction time versus your car's reaction time and adjust accordingly.
2. TEST your car's reaction in a relatively safe section. I usually do it with nobody behind me and a nice shoulder of unpacked snow to the side. Try to slow down by slowly applying pressure to the brakes. Figure out what it takes to lock up the brakes and then stay slightly less than that.
3. As stated above, you get a lot more traction with just two tires off the road/hardpack. A lot of times you'll even dig through the snow to the dirt/mud below, create a rut, and your car will magically straighten out just before you hit that delineator post. Pay attention to how the snow is packed on the road and if you need to slow down/turn quickly, try to avoid doing it on the hard packed snow (usually slicker than unpacked). Drive on the hardpack otherwise, so that other people have this option if they need it.
4. Stay as far away from those other people who obviously don't have experience driving in snow. There are a lot of greenies (colorado) with said SUV's with no real experience with them. I hate driving in Colorado in the winter. I feel perfectly confident that I can handle my vehicle in the snow, and can minimize any accidents if they do have to occur. Driving around other people is what scares me... because I can't feel that same way around other people. Keep your space, if you have to pass, get in front of them as quickly as possible, while still maintaining control. You're in more danger when you're close behind/right next to them than you are in front of them.
5. Follow someone from Wyoming or Minnesota *lol*. Stick with someone who seems to know what they are doing (allowing more than enough space of course). You can see how their car reacts to things in front of you, giving you more time to react. (pre-emption?) Usually it won't be bad, but it'll give you a heads up before anything happens to your vehicle. It also allows you to help them if something does go severely wrong. In Wyoming, if you crash alone, it could be a few hours before the next guy comes by. And there's not always service to call for help. They won't see you if you wreck, but you have a much better chance of avoiding this because you have that pre-emptive vision.
6. Don't be deathly afraid of running into something at slow speeds. It sucks for insurance, but usually in the snow the impact won't be as hard. (unless you hit a tree, but to hit a tree you have to plow through the snow to get to it, so you'll be going slow as it is) A lot of people freak out if they are going to hit something and try to over correct. Sometimes it is unavoidable that you will go off the road, straight into that delineator pole and ruin that brand new paint job on your Mercedes. Oh wait, this is RC.com... Come on, nobody is going to notice one more paint scratch/dent on your beater anyway, and if they do, you just look like more of a dirtbag. (++points) You're not going to get hurt if you rear end the guy in front of you, even if you're going 10mph faster than him. You're not going to die if you slide into a snow drift at even 30 mph. Snow is soft... Remember: It's just a car.
7. I can't believe this one hasn't been said yet, but WEAR YOUR SEATBELT! I don't drive until everyone in the car is "on-belay".
8. Be prepared. Sleeping bags and a day or two worth of food to keep you warm is a good idea. Pay attention to where you are, it will come in handy. Don't leave your car running too long if you're stuck... people have suffocated from CO/CO2 coming back into the car. Run it only as long as you need to get the car warm again. Stay with your car: it is easiest to spot for others. Certain situations may call for other options.
As always, these are only recommendations, and changing conditions call for changing strategies. #3 and parts of #8 may not be a good idea in certain conditions.
--J
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j_from_the_307
Oct 20, 2004, 7:31 PM
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Oh yeah, and HAVE PATIENCE. PATIENCE PATIENCE PATIENCE. You're not going to get there very fast anyway, is it really worth passing everyone that's going 5 mph slower than you? It'll only add a few more minutes to the already long haul.
Like they say, Patience is a virgin.
Err... Virtue...
--J
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glowering
Oct 20, 2004, 7:49 PM
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Yeah don't tailgate. Why do 90% of people tailgate? When the car in front of you passes a pole or something you should be able to count at least 2-3 seconds before you pass it, 4-5 seconds for poor conditions. If you need to hit the brakes on the freeway you are tailgating and then everyone hits their brakes more and more which causes congestion. Uneeded lane changes cause congestion too. Some people are too shortsighted to see this I guess.
I think the chain requirements are also needed since the snow accumulates so fast (at least in the Sierra) that they can't plow fast enough to keep the road clear, the steep inclines lead to people literally spinning their wheels, and the temp can change so fast that ice can form very fast.
When you park and it's snowing flip your windshield wipers up off the windshield, otherwise they can get frozen to the glass (when all that heat Dingus had you generate wears off and it freezes) and prying them off thrashes them.
Watch out for that black ice. I lost control on New Years Eve once coming down Old 40 right in front of Black Wall, the black ice looked identical to the dry pavement.
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hoppinbig
Oct 20, 2004, 7:58 PM
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As a canadian I feel compelled to help those less qualified out... some good tips here... I can just think of one now:
If you are trying to get moving from a stop and your wheels slip - try starting in 2nd gear - much less torque this way (you won't break any 0-60 times this way but it will get you moving).
Someone else mentioned it but it needs to be said again - down-shifting is the best way to slow down on slippery roads (just make sure you ease off the clutch slower than in a normal downshift or you can lose control).
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steamboatclimber
Oct 20, 2004, 8:09 PM
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.... remember to always have an excuse to tell your friends why you, the person who is always instructing others on the art of driving in the snow, just crashed their new subi in the last big storm. Black ice seems to be a favorite....
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hiram
Oct 20, 2004, 8:21 PM
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good topic,
i remember in southern CA. people would put their chains on miles before they actually got to the snow covered roads, if it was raining (at lower elev.) they would chain up, likewise they would leave their chains on until they we so far away from the snow they had to turn the a/c back on. i always got a kick out of these socal people that have never seen snow, much less driven in it.............
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climbco
Oct 20, 2004, 8:23 PM
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Driving on a Pass tips....
If you're going 10 mph on a one lane, PULL OVER!!!!!!!!!!
Not everyone else wants to smell your brakes and have to ride theirs too becuase you're driving like a jerk.
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davidji
Oct 20, 2004, 8:28 PM
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In reply to: If you are trying to get moving from a stop and your wheels slip - try starting in 2nd gear - much less torque this way (you won't break any 0-60 times this way but it will get you moving).
Many automatics also allow you to do a 2nd gear start. At least for some of them, just put the auto shifter on 2.
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mingus
Oct 20, 2004, 8:36 PM
Post #41 of 70
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Lots of good advice here.
I'm surprised more folks haven't mentioned my pet concern about other drivers (including a lot of 4WDs.) That is, know the condition of your tires. Having 'snow tires' that have half the tread gone means you have a whole lot less traction than with new tires. It's the tires that really get you stopped and turned. Lots of suvs are running around with tires that are good in deep snow and mud but suck in icy conditions.
Good tires are really cheap insurance - even at $600 or more for a set. Don't be too cheap about new rubber but most of all know the condition of your tires and drive accordingly.
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icarus_burned
Oct 20, 2004, 8:41 PM
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high gears, low revs
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gds
Oct 20, 2004, 8:42 PM
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Here's some training advice. Of course I grew up in the northern mid west before mandatory insurance and when you could buy a clunker for $50.
In high school when the local pond froze over we'd take our $50 "cars" and race on the ice. It was quite safe and great fun- the ice was thick and with the low friction crashes were pretty low impact. The big benefit was that we learned to drive on pure ice -speed, turns, stopping, etc. So, on the roads we were in very good shape. Except of course for having folks who couldn't drive on ice skidding all over the place.
That's ice! For snow little worry- you just get stuck :-)
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maculated
Oct 20, 2004, 8:47 PM
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When I lived in Mammoth, I used to enjoy sitting at the base of the main drag and watching the cars slide down the hill. It is NOT always a good idea to drive slowly in the snow.
(1) If you're approaching a hill with snow, keep your momentum up, or you WILL lose traction.
I was behind a guy going five miles an hour up the hill who lost traction and started sliding backward. He managed to get himself cocked at an angle before he stopped. I figured he might be intelligent to learn by immitation, so
(2) If you start sliding down a hill, just let it flow. Go backward until you're flat again and then get momentum up again.
I backed up to flatter ground, trucked up ahead, and watched as the moron kept trying to go forward and got himself stuck in a ditch.
MUWAHAHAHAHA
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sancho
Oct 20, 2004, 9:01 PM
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Oh, and if you insist on using stupid chains, get the elastic chain tighteners that help hold the chains on the wheel. This is basically a bungie cord that keeps the chains from flopping around.
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glowering
Oct 20, 2004, 9:13 PM
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In reply to: I was behind a guy going five miles an hour up the hill who lost traction and started sliding backward. He managed to get himself cocked at an angle before he stopped.
OK off topic, but I gotta relate this one. On Sept. 24 this year I was heading up Old Priest Grade (a VERY steep windy shortcut with big steep drop offs) on the way to Yosemite, almost to the top I see a bunch of cars stopped.
I park and get out to take a look. There's a 18 Wheeler tanker truck stopped going uphill blocking BOTH lanes. I say out loud "what the hell is this" just as the driver is walking up to me. He deserved all the embarassment he was feeling.
He had a full truck (of gasoline!) and didn't have enough torque to get over the top. He says "I can back up if you stand behind me and guide me". YEAH RIGHT! I told him he needs professional help. He's going to kill himself if he tries to back down this. Anyone who's seen old priest can imagine this nightmare scenario. I RAN back to my car, turned around, went all the way back down and up the long way, he was still there with a line of cars behind him. I called 911 (took forever to get thru, scary in itself if it was a real emergency) and kept on going.
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sauron
Oct 20, 2004, 9:20 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: There is so much about this dialog that I don't understand. CHP? Chain control? This must be either a mountain or regional thing. Explain this please. I don't even think I've seen a car with chains on in my life. My snowblower has chains. OK, the thing to understand is that A. Minnesotans in general know more about snow driving than any humans ought to know. Lets get that established straight away. But Minnesotans don't know nothing about MOUNTAIN driving in the snow, and sharing the road with people who live in places where it NEVER snows.
Having spent far more time than I can remember in Norway (and other scandinavian countries) - I have to say that 80% of the US population, has absolutely no clue what they're talking about, in relation to driving.
American driver's education, is a big joke. I got my US driver's license without showing proof that I could actually drive a car - I only took the computer test. Granted, I was holding my norwegian international driver's license in my hand as I parked my truck outside the DMV main entrance.
But I applaud the advice given in this thread - and thus, the 20% who actually know what they're doing. :)
In reply to: Yeah don't tailgate. Why do 90% of people tailgate? When the car in front of you passes a pole or something you should be able to count at least 2-3 seconds before you pass it, 4-5 seconds for poor conditions. If you need to hit the brakes on the freeway you are tailgating and then everyone hits their brakes more and more which causes congestion. Uneeded lane changes cause congestion too. Some people are too shortsighted to see this I guess.
I piss people who tailgate me off. A short, just-the-right-amount-of-pressure-to-dip-the-nose-of-the-truck tap of the brakes, followed by sufficient gas for the moron to NOT run into me, generally gets them to back up...
Did I mention I hate tailgaters?
- d.
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sauron
Oct 20, 2004, 9:23 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I was behind a guy going five miles an hour up the hill who lost traction and started sliding backward. He managed to get himself cocked at an angle before he stopped. OK off topic, but I gotta relate this one. On Sept. 24 this year I was heading up Old Priest Grade (a VERY steep windy shortcut with big steep drop offs) on the way to Yosemite, almost to the top I see a bunch of cars stopped.
Is that the shortcut from Tuolumne City to the park? With the bridge at the bottom of the gorge?
That's an awesome road, sooo reminded me of Norway :)
- .d.
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maculated
Oct 20, 2004, 9:27 PM
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I don't think so, Sauron. It's just a steep alternative along the main road.
Truckers are silly, silly.
I heard a rumor about a trucker with rocks going up 120 from 395. He got turned around at the pass (as obviously, he shouldn't have even got up there) and his brakes failed and pancaked into the cliffs along Tioga pass. Rumor only, though.
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iltripp
Oct 20, 2004, 9:29 PM
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In reply to: what do people from NC know about snow.
I think this has been said, but STFU! What do I not know about snow, moron? Name one thing wrong with what I posted.
For your information, it does snow around here. Not all the time, but in the mountains it's pretty common. To top it off, snow is rare enough that:
1) lots of people don't know how to drive in it.
2) cities are poorly equipped to deal with clearing roads
3) no one has chains
The net effect is that when it does snow, there are plenty of added dangers to combine with our wet, slippery snow and narrow mountain roads.
Oh, and for future reference, try to know something before you open your mouth again.
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