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xanx
Aug 28, 2003, 5:36 PM
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ok first off, i'm a boulderer. there. i said it. now, i am just curious why boulderers get bashed so much. people tend to look down on boulderers and characterize them as young punks with big pillows who don't have the balls to lead. they disrespect boulderers. and they very seldom give good reasons why.
personally, i prefer bouldering for a number of reasons. one is b/c it is easy to do: you don't need much gear or technical expertise. i also like the emphasis on purity of climbing and on pushing yourself as hard as possible and overcoming ur limitations. however, i have respect for other types of climbing as well. i respect sport climbers for pulling absolutely disgustingly hard moves on lead and doing some of the sickest lines possible. i respect trad climbers for the balls to actually trust that tiny chunk of metal wedged into that micro crack with a big whipper. i respect ice climbers b/c i can see the purity in it and the beauty of it (plus the balls to trust a screw u put into the ice by hand to save ur life!). Aid climbers are just insane. A5 climbing sounds to me like a very good way to get a free trip home in a timber box. and, apparently, A5 climbers have to be veritable encyclopedias of technical knowledge. And then there are the "jack of all trades" alpine hardmen who do it all in mega-epics up the most formidable peaks.
i just want to hear people actually give reasons why they don't like boulderers. i also want to point out pre-emptively that, currently, the hardest moves that have ever been pulled on rope are around V11 or so (Realization crux). the hardest boulder problems are around V15. i don't think i need to point out that it is going to be quite a while before anyone even thinks about pulling a V15 50' off the ground.... so for shear difficulty of moves, bouldering wins hands down.
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beercanclimber
Aug 28, 2003, 5:50 PM
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i can hear the flame throwers click on from a block away.
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craggy
Aug 28, 2003, 5:55 PM
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It's cause of people like you that non-boulderers bash boulderers. I'm a boulderer and I need no reason as to why I boulder. Why should I give a rats ass what a lead climber thinks? Why should it get to you so much? Hell just climb and f**k em all.
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ikefromla
Aug 28, 2003, 5:58 PM
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because they're weak.. yeah, i said it.
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karmaklimber
Aug 28, 2003, 6:00 PM
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Xanx brings up a good point in a humble manner. I don't think its a matter of whether or not other climbers' opinions will get to you or not, but more so out of curiosity and interest. Whatever people say, whether they'll hate or support, you'll still boulder regardless.
I think he's just looking for reasons why other people dislike bouldering rather than looking for a particular reason to boulder himself. (please correct me if I'm wrong)
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xanx
Aug 28, 2003, 6:02 PM
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In reply to: Hell just climb and f**k em all.
right... that's a great attitude to have.... really gonna make a lot of friends like that....
this site has really gone down hill in the last few months.... when i first came here trolls and flames came every now and then... now real responses come every now and then in between the flames and trolls.
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boulderman
Aug 28, 2003, 6:05 PM
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Xanx,
Before coming to RC.com I would have thought you were crazy for saying boulderers are bashed. But here it seems to be the rule. I spend time training in a gym and get outside to boulder too. I will use the gym as an example, since it is much more of a social activity. In the gym, it seems like boulderers are the best climbers, any moderate to hard boulderer in the gym could get on a sport route and cruise what most of the regular route climbers would shy away from. I think most sport climbers respect boulderers.
I think one reason boulders are bashed is jealousy. Most boulderers are young, strong, and talented climbers pulling moves that most route climbers will never see 50ft. of the ground. I think that technically, bouldering is what will push climbing to new levels in the future. Some of the hard-core boulderers will some day put on a harness and send sport routes or even trad routes that may be impossible now (i.e. Chris Sharma). Some will never put on a harness, but will send a V16 with moves that even the best trad climber couldn't hope to make in their lifetime. Maybe some of the older climbing community doesn't want to realize this and are in denial.
Another reason is just the climbing culture. As people get older, they become set in their ways. I would say on average that most trad climbers and aid climbers are a little older than the average boulderer. Maybe their bodies won't allow them to continually punish there bodies on a boulder so they choose to take it easier physically and focus on the mental aspect of climbing. Some of these old purists just don't understand the new trends of climbing. Although they may be very good climbers, they will bitch and moan about every new person they see at "their" crag. They will make fun of your slippers while they climb in the old big wall high tops, and they will call you a gym rat even though you are outside! Either the mock what they do not understand, or they may just be a little bitter.
Maybe a little more respect for all styles is due. At this point I have o interest on getting on a trad route, just as they may not want to touch a boulder problem. Bottom line is, Bouldering is rock climbing! And it is very, very hard rock climbing.
BTW, as a side note about the hole plastic vs. rock thing. Some of the hardest routes I have ever seen have been in the gym! So it may not be real rock, it is hard climbing!
Bouderman
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beyond_gravity
Aug 28, 2003, 6:05 PM
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I ask the question why should people respect bouldering?
Don't get me wrong, I like bouldering, and do it on a regular basis...however, I don't have much respect for people that climb V10, at least not in the same way I have respect for Mark Twight and Berry Blanchard (sp?).
I hold Doug Scott in higher regards then Dave Graham. I probably have more respect for Peter Zabrok then Lisa Rands.
Why? Because courage earns respect, crimp strength doesn’t.
The other thing is this purity thing…anyone who has done a multi-pitch trad route in the backcountry would never say bouldering is more pure. At least to me, there is nothing better then getting to the top of a route and enjoying the gentle wind, peace, and unpolluted sound as I belay the second up with nothing but air between me and the tree tops below.
The longer the journey, the richer the experience.
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dsafanda
Aug 28, 2003, 6:07 PM
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In reply to: i'm a boulderer.
I don't think people bash bouldering so much as they bash the concept of being a "boulderer". I'm not sure I even know what that means.
All "climbers" I know enjoy bouldering. It's fun, challenging and a great way to get strong and build technique but it's just one small facet of rock climbing. If there is any ridicule directed at bouldering I think it is primarily skepticism for the idea of limiting oneself to nothing but bouldering. I think those of you that follow this path are missing out on much of what climbing has to offer. All that said, to each his own. It's all good.
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rrrADAM
Aug 28, 2003, 6:09 PM
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I don't see that all the time... If anything, I see more boulderers trashing other styles of climbing, than I do others bashing bouldering.
We all may not be brothers and sisters in the same style, but we are all cousins in that we climb, so we all have the last name: Climber
It's all climbing brutha !!!
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rockfax
Aug 28, 2003, 6:11 PM
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Because it's trendy to bash something that is... well....trendy.
Plus a lot of young people do it and it's fashionable to bash youngsters.
Truth be known just as many gray hairs do it as well, but there's nothing wrong with a good bashing now and again.
Mick
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norskagent
Aug 28, 2003, 6:27 PM
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ummm crimp strength does earn respect as well as courage...I'm always impressed when I see someone do something on rock I can't or won't do.
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kman
Aug 28, 2003, 6:27 PM
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In reply to: Because courage earns respect, crimp strength doesn’t
Damn straight!
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mother_sheep
Aug 28, 2003, 6:31 PM
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I'm a bouldering scene basher but I don't bash bouldering. I've only been to a few boulders where there weren't a bunch of loud mouth kids hanging out in their little beanies just sitting on their little butts "recovering" from their last set. Regardless, to be good at bouldering you have to be strong. I have respect for all climbers who are true to their sport, whether it be bouldering, aiding, trad, sport, whatever. It's the scene though that turns me off.
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curt
Aug 28, 2003, 6:33 PM
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In reply to: i am just curious why boulderers get bashed so much. people tend to look down on boulderers and characterize them as young punks with big pillows who don't have the balls to lead. they disrespect boulderers. and they very seldom give good reasons why.
I think the responses to this question that cite age as a reason are somewhat off-point, except to the extent that the obnoxious "boom-box" toting boulderers--who are highly visible--are usually young. There are plenty of us old guys who have been climbing in all forms (trad, sport, walls, bouldering, etc.) for more years than most young climbers have been alive. And guess what? Many of us now prefer bouldering to other types of climbing. So, to say that it is the old guys who are set in their ways that are bashing bouldering is, I think, a mistake.
Curt
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javaguy
Aug 28, 2003, 6:36 PM
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People who only boulder tend to look at themselves as climbers. And people who don't climb tend to look at them as climbers too. But real climber don't want to be put in the same drawer as boulderers. It is big difference between bouldering and climbing. :?
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curt
Aug 28, 2003, 6:37 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Because courage earns respect, crimp strength doesn’t Damn straight!
What makes you think these two things are mutually exclusive? Feel free to come bouldering with me sometime at Black Mountain or Joshua Tree.
Curt
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wc
Aug 28, 2003, 6:40 PM
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In reply to: i am just curious why boulderers get bashed so much. people tend to look down on boulderers and characterize them as young punks with big pillows one is b/c it is easy to do: you don't need much gear or technical expertise.
Some people would argue that you just gave all the reasons yourself.
Boulderer's are lazy... hell, that's why I do it, because I don't want to hike 45 minutes and climb 80+ feet just to fall and try it again. I would much rather sit on my crash pad and shoot the poo... I'm lazy.
Secondly, boulderers are usually either young punks, like you, or old punks, like BVB... all with big pillows. They either lack the social skills to behave properly in crowded bouldering areas (young), or they have spent their life refining said social skills in such a way as to subtly offend and burn off everyone in their immediate vicinity. This takes getting used to and folks who are new to bouldering generally have a hard time adjusting.
In reply to: the hardest boulder problems are around V15. i don't think i need to point out that it is going to be quite a while before anyone even thinks about pulling a V15 50' off the ground.... so for shear difficulty of moves, bouldering wins hands down.
I heard a rumor that Sharma pulled off the ground for five seconds on two holds that nobody else can even imagine pulling on!!! Everyone was so amazed at the pure difficulty of this feat that they all started training JUST TO PULL OFF THE GROUND ON SICK HOLDS! Sherman is writing a guide book to all the Pull Off the Ground problems in Bishop and has even started a new rating system with "Sharma's POG" being rated POG 10 as a reference.
POGGERS don't even need pads since they aren't going anywhere, which reduces the gear and makes it simpler and harder and purer than bouldering.
For years I have been HANGING on sick holds all over the western US, I'd say I pretty much invented the sport of HANGING, nobody was pushing the limits of HANGING until I hit the scene. No pad, no shoes, just me and my chalk... it doesn't get any simpler than that. I've got some HANG projects for Sharma to try once he sends all his POG projects in Bishop and realizes that the simplest, purest form of climbing is simply HANGING!
It don't get much better than that...
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jipstyle
Aug 28, 2003, 6:41 PM
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In reply to: All "climbers" I know enjoy bouldering. It's fun, challenging and a great way to get strong and build technique but it's just one small facet of rock climbing. If there is any ridicule directed at bouldering I think it is primarily skepticism for the idea of limiting oneself to nothing but bouldering. I think those of you that follow this path are missing out on much of what climbing has to offer. All that said, to each his own. It's all good.
Well said!
Anyone who limits themselves to one aspect of climbing is missing out on a great deal.
If I may expand on your point, I'd like to point out that the two 'forms' of climbing that receive the most negative attention are the two forms that are insular ... bouldering, and sport climbing. When I say 'insular', I mean that they do not include aspects of the other types. For example, a trad climber pulls moves similar (though perhaps not as hard) to those pulled by boulderers and sport climbers ... all three use free climbing. For trad climbers, the free climbing is part of climbing ... for the other two, they are climbing. Aid climbers also free climb, but add aid to the list of 'tricks' they use to get up the rock.
In other words, to a trad climber or an aid climber, people who only free climb, whether over a pad or while clipping bolts, are missing an integral part of the climbing experience. Multi-pitch sport climbs are rare; multi-pitch boulders are called free solos. Multi-pitch trad and aid routes are, of course, a significant part of the experience.
What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that sport and bouldering are limited aspects of climbing, and for some, this is not the spirit of climbing.
Having said all of that ... to all of you who bash what other people do for fun: STFU and climb. As long as they don't impact your climbing (a different discussion altogether) it ain't none of your business and you only make yourself look like a$$holes.
:)
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jonlatner
Aug 28, 2003, 6:41 PM
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In reply to: I don't see that all the time... If anything, I see more boulderers trashing other styles of climbing, than I do others bashing bouldering. We all may not be brothers and sisters in the same style, but we are all cousins in that we climb, so we all have the last name: Climber It's all climbing brutha !!!
In my short lived climbing experience I have met only a few hardcore boulderers. They showed me a new way to climb, one that was riskier, harder, and in some ways more relaxing and fun (i.e. social). That being said, when one in the group took a day off to lead or top rope the comment was not have a great day, rather it was why, why would you waste a day? Thats not right...I agree with the person I quoted, to me its all climbing.
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hellclimber
Aug 28, 2003, 6:52 PM
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In reply to: In other words, to a trad climber or an aid climber, people who only free climb, whether over a pad or while clipping bolts, are missing an integral part of the climbing experience. ... ... What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that sport and bouldering are limited aspects of climbing, and for some, this is not the spirit of climbing. ...
If I understand this correctly you are saying that free soloing is missing an integral part of the climbing experience and is not in the spirit of climbing as people who do it only free climb. Get a grip on reality. Free climbing is a major part of the spirit of climbing.
As for bashing bouldering; enjoy your rock hopping. I need some exposure to get the adrenaline flowing but to each his/her own.
hellclimber
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boulderman
Aug 28, 2003, 6:54 PM
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Curt, your explanations sounds good, what you said, is what I was trying to get at when I said they were set in their ways, (style). You just said it better. I think I stressed the age thing too much. I'm not a young boulderer either. I think a few specific unfortunate incidents have clouded my view of the "older trad climber".
Also, When I started climbing I climbed sport routes and then started to use bouldering as a training method. Although I do get on an occasional route, all I really want to do is push myself harder on tough boulder problems.
Also, There are a lot of bouldering problems that take courage. Ask J. Kehl about Evilution.... 50ft. V12/13? Why not just call it a 5.14 free Solo?
Have you "courage/not crimp" climbers tried topping out a V7 slopey mantle with a high heel hook 15+ ft. high ?
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maynardgkrebs
Aug 28, 2003, 6:58 PM
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Bouldering is fun. It defintiely is a legitmate form of climbing, but it is also a silly trend, which will pass. It's ridiculous that in the magazines, equal importance is given to some horrendous Himalayan big wall and another v15 send by Fred Nicole.
There are lots of reason why boulderers get dissed.
One of the more annoying aspects of bouldering is the obsession over ratings. I think the V-system is hilarious. Sherman made it up as a joke. A couple years back, he even wrote an article wherein he explained that it was a joke, but nobody cares--V15 sounds so much cooler than the old-school rating of B2. Go to the discussion board at www.frontrangebouldering.com and read a few posts there if you don't think boulderers are obsessed with ratings.
The idea that it's something new is also funny. Bouldering is nothing new. Certain aspects of bouldering are new--Giant pads and sponsorship, for example. I'd say the main new thing about bouldering is mostly marketing. Magazines and manufacturers have realized that the majority of people will not be willing devote the time, money, and effort necessary to learn the craft of trad climbing. However, for less than a couple hundred bucks, you can buy some shoes, a chalkbag and a beanie hat. All that's left is to remove your shirt and voila--You're a climber! Commence spraying!
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furbucket
Aug 28, 2003, 6:58 PM
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Because bouldering is climbing's lowest common denominator. Hey it says it right here:
http://www.hcn.org/...cle?article_id=14088
It must be true!
But seriously, I love bouldering. It's great training for real climbing. :)
Ok, I'll stop now.
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rocknut1
Aug 28, 2003, 7:17 PM
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If they knock it they havent tried it or had someone kick their ass on a tough boulder problem. I lead climb,climb top rope , ice climb and winter mountaineer. I thought bouldering was for novices or people who did not want to get off the ground. Then I spent some time in the bouldering cave and on some tough outdoor problems and now I split my climbing and bouldering time 50 - 50. Climbing is a route with cruxes, bouldering is a crux.
I also found bouldering has made me a better climber.
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dead_milkman
Aug 28, 2003, 7:30 PM
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In reply to: ...however, I don't have much respect for people that climb V10, at least not in the same way I have respect for Mark Twight and Berry Blanchard (sp?). I hold Doug Scott in higher regards then Dave Graham. I probably have more respect for Peter Zabrok then Lisa Rands.
I have to wonder, and I appologize in advance for what's going to come off as confrontational, but have you actually met any of these people?
In reply to: Why? Because courage earns respect, crimp strength doesn’t.
One can respect many different types of accomplishment, no?
Odd that you would mention "courage" and Twight, though. Many of his exploits seem to me to be the result of various things going on in his head, rather than courage. Anyway...
In reply to: The other thing is this purity thing…anyone who has done a multi-pitch trad route in the backcountry would never say bouldering is more pure.
It's best to avoid blanket statements.
In reply to: At least to me, there is nothing better then getting to the top of a route and enjoying the gentle wind, peace, and unpolluted sound as I belay the second up with nothing but air between me and the tree tops below.
How is this not possible on a boulder? On a hike? Canoeing down a river? One's church is what one makes of it.
In reply to: The longer the journey, the richer the experience.
Again, best to avoid blanket statements.
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wc
Aug 28, 2003, 7:32 PM
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In reply to: Because bouldering is climbing's lowest common denominator.
No, its HANGING you fool. I sent a HANG 9 today at Roubidoux... got my eye on this killer little HANG 10 FA... just so happens it is on this killer 4 foot high wave wall so you have to arc your body just so in order to balance your body weight and hold the slopers... then there is the Left HANG 11 variation where you blow off one of the slopers and hang the crimp...
Man, I love hanging, it's so pure, so uncomplicated, it truely is climbing's lowest common denominator!
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norskagent
Aug 28, 2003, 7:37 PM
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most hard sport routes, say at the new, involve significant sections of mindless "easy" climbing interspersed with "boulder" sections...so I just cut out all the easy crap and go boldering.
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climber49er
Aug 28, 2003, 7:44 PM
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I boulder because it's fun.
I boulder because I am challenged by it.
I boulder because I can do it alone if I want.
I boulder because it's a great workout.
I boulder because I want to.
I boulder mostly because I don't know enough climbers that I can climb with on my schedule.
When I started climbing I didn't know what bouldering was. I thought climbing only involved ropes and big cliffs that freak me out. I haven't spent much time on a rope. I enjoy bouldering for what it is. If I ever get more time in on a rope, then good, I will enjoy that also. I will continue to boulder because I love it.
At the end of the day, it's all a nice day outside challenging my body and mind.
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robmcc
Aug 28, 2003, 7:45 PM
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I would have thought it was obvious. People bash bouldering because bouldering isn't real climbing. It's kind of like slacklining. It's only on the site because some climbers do it, too.
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jabtocrag
Aug 28, 2003, 7:48 PM
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In reply to: I don't see that all the time... If anything, I see more boulderers trashing other styles of climbing, than I do others bashing bouldering. We all may not be brothers and sisters in the same style, but we are all cousins in that we climb, so we all have the last name: Climber It's all climbing brutha !!!
So beautiful...we're all family!! Talk about ur relatives you'd like to hide :lol:
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dlintz
Aug 28, 2003, 7:49 PM
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This talk of hanging and pogging is making my tendons hurt.
I'll talke a multi-pitch trad route over bouldering anyday but calling it more pure....I disagree. Bouldering is all about the moves, trad is all about the moves + protection + rope + placements + belaying + ....
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curt
Aug 28, 2003, 7:55 PM
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In reply to: I would have thought it was obvious. People bash bouldering because bouldering isn't real climbing. It's kind of like slacklining. It's only on the site because some climbers do it, too.
Rather poor attempt at trolling, read Hillary's "Hotties" thread and try again. Its the gold-standard of all trolls.
Curt
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robmcc
Aug 28, 2003, 8:02 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I would have thought it was obvious. People bash bouldering because bouldering isn't real climbing. It's kind of like slacklining. It's only on the site because some climbers do it, too. Rather poor attempt at trolling, read Hillary's "Hotties" thread and try again. Its the gold-standard of all trolls. Curt
Well, that'd be because I'm not trolling. Teasing the original poster a bit, yes. Trolling, no. I'm kidding and I freely admit it. :D
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xanx
Aug 28, 2003, 8:04 PM
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the sad thing is, i'm not exactly certain that was a troll...
one other thing i would like to mention: it takes an amazing amount of mental strength (or willpower or whatever) to make it up a hard trad lead or a crazy A5 pitch or whatever - you have to really really want it bad to even try something like that. people often cite the mental aspect of trad and aid, and i would second that. the main reason i have so much respect for hard trad and aid climbers is because they can keep it cool when there is so much danger.
however, making it up a V13 or harder boulder problem also requires just as much mental strength. you have to really know ur body and understand how it works and be able to tap into every reserve of strength to send something that hard. just think about it. even fred nicole probably doesn't just walk up to something like Dreamtime, eat a sandwitch, send it, and then go get a coffee. it requires A LOT of concentration. i bet we would all be very surprised (and i bet anatomy students would also be very surprised) if someone actually worked out the forces needed to pull the moves on something like Dreamtime or New Base Line. i would be surprised if they were within the limits of what human beings were previously thought capable of. just my theory.
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wc
Aug 28, 2003, 8:19 PM
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In reply to: I'll talke a multi-pitch trad route over bouldering anyday but calling it more pure....I disagree. Bouldering is all about the moves, trad is all about the moves + protection + rope + placements + belaying + ....
You can't boulder if you aren't hanging. You can't climb trad unless you are hanging... and you certainly have to Pull Off the Ground to get anywhere with any of them.
POGGING and HANGING are the ONLY pure forms of climbing... they are truely the essence of climbing
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robmcc
Aug 28, 2003, 8:20 PM
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In reply to: the sad thing is, i'm not exactly certain that was a troll...
Hope I cleared it up for you. I thought it was a question begging for such an answer, even if only in jest. If I have to give a serious response, I haven't gotten the impression bouldering is bashed at atll. To the contrary, I thought it was the "in" thing. As far as I'm concerned, climb whatever makes you happy and if you actually care what anyone else thinks of your climbing OR what you choose to climb, you may be doing it for the wrong reasons.
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craggy
Aug 28, 2003, 8:28 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Hell just climb and f**k em all. right... that's a great attitude to have.... really gonna make a lot of friends like that.... this site has really gone down hill in the last few months.... when i first came here trolls and flames came every now and then... now real responses come every now and then in between the flames and trolls.
What I MEANT was f**k the people that BASH you (the boulderer) and stop fretting over it. As I said before, who really cares if some lame ass lead climber who can lead at a 5.10 says boulderers suck. Great climbers don't sit there and worry about what people say, they climb and have fun. That's what i was trying to say.
btw, I boulder exclusively! I love it and I laugh at the people who think bouldering is easy or for wimps and lazy people. hahahahahahahaha
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floridaputz
Aug 28, 2003, 8:29 PM
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My Hiearchy for climbing
High altitude mountianeer/big wall climber
Alpine rock climber (trad)
Traditional Rock climber
Sport Climber
Boulderer
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thinksinpictures
Aug 28, 2003, 8:29 PM
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Someone said at the beginning of this thread that it was going to become a flame war. Some people have tried to avoid this and posted thoughtful comments on the schism developing between different types of climbing (between bouldering and “the rest” in this case). Others, true to the form of RC.com, have simply lambasted individuals and groups for practice one form of climbing or another.
When I started climbing one of the first things that impressed itself on me was how freaking nice all of the climbers I met were. Whether outdoors or in the gym, stronger or more experienced climbers always encouraged me, which contributed so much to my already thorough enjoyment of the sport.
Recently I’ve seen a growing number of people, mostly on this and other climbing sites, who have decided that they need to express – often loudly and rudely – that the type of climbing that they choose to participate in is somehow “better” than other forms of climbing. I think this is really sad, not just because the climbing community used to be so welcoming, but also because climbing is reaching a historical point where some major decisions are going to have to be made by both climbers and land managers regarding land use, recreational access, environmental protection, and other issues that ALL climbers have to deal with whether they like it or not. I’m not interested in entertaining arguments about what forms of climbing have the most of the least impact or will be more or less affected by these issues/decisions. I have my own thoughts, but they are for another forum, or a PM if you’re interested. The fact is that to one degree or another, ALL OF US WILL BE AFFECTED and all of us need to be thinking about these issues with our common interest in mind.
On a more philosophical note, we all climb because we love it, and we know that most other people don’t understand this love. Certainly whether you love trad, sport, bouldering, aid, ice, or whatever (heaven forbid that you might love more than one!), enough of this love is shared between us that we can understand why others might enjoy a different aspect of climbing than us, no? I’ve never climbed trad, but I desperately want to learn. I’ve never climbed ice and I have no desire to. I can, however, understand why people might really love BOTH of these types of climbing. And regardless of their courage or their crimp strength, I respect them because of their DEVOTION to climbing. Again, something that we all share.
I’m haven’t bothered to specify what types of climbing I do enjoy and why, because it just doesn’t matter. You don’t see me going around telling basketball players that they’re sport sucks and mine rules. I climb for my reasons and they play basketball for theirs. Who knows, I might even enjoy climbing AND basketball. Or maybe I do one as conditioning for the other. Unfathomable, isn’t it?
I don’t think this is flame worthy, but I don’t think that about most of the stuff on this site, and yet I’m constantly proven wrong. If you wanna flame, PM me and don’t waste other people’s time.
I don't recall who said this or I'd give proper (and well deserved) credit: "It's all climbing brutha"
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wc
Aug 28, 2003, 8:30 PM
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In reply to: however, making it up a V13 or harder boulder problem also requires just as much mental strength. you have to really know ur body and understand how it works and be able to tap into every reserve of strength to send something that hard. just think about it.
You should really try HANGING at your absolute limit! Nothing takes more mental strength than holding onto a buttery sloper for 5 seconds. It is concentrated climbing in it's purest form! It's all the rage here in CA... rumor has it the next XGames will have a hangboard comp with HANGS set by some of the world's top hangers!
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curt
Aug 28, 2003, 8:40 PM
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In reply to: My Hiearchy for climbing High altitude mountianeer/big wall climber Alpine rock climber (trad) Traditional Rock climber Sport Climber Boulderer
So, let's face it. you can't get both feet of the ground bouldering, right?
Curt
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crackaddict
Aug 28, 2003, 8:48 PM
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I was thinking the other day about how people see climbers and why there has been a lot of trashing on all climbers and their impact in the recent years. There are alot more climbers now. It seems that we are becomeing more and more noticeable. The first people that are getting noticed are the ones closer to the ground. Which are the boulderers.
People are going to judge climbers by their first impresions. So if someone sees some guy trashing the areas and being a jerk. Then people are gonna come off saying that climbers or boulderers are a certain way. As for as other climbers seeing boulderers. It works the same way. It seems that Boulderers that stand out these days are comonly the young gym rats. Which are stereotypicaly young guys with attitudes and have no respect for the outdoors.
I go bouldering as well doing all sorts of other climbing. And don't wish to be classified as some bouldering punk. But I think that it is up to us to educate those around us about impact on the land and how we should present ourselves when we are outside.
It would'nt hurt any to help others around to help preserve climbing. It is a difficult thing to do since climbing is all about being free and being able to express yourself through it. But really how we act says a lot about who we are. And since people are all about first impressions. It is up to us to make good ones. I would hate seeing our sport suffer from the ignorance of lame people. Because the rest of us suffer form it..
Don't know if this helps anyting but it makes me feel good.
So all in all its not boulderers thats suck its people that suck.
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dino
Aug 28, 2003, 9:13 PM
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I don't know anything about people dissing bouldering. I do know it is a great way to spend time cranking hard moves you (well, me anyway) wouldn't normally do on a multi-pitch. Where I boulder I can do three pitches of 5.9 moves in about an hour without doing the same move twice. Whew, good workout! It also gives me confidence for roped climbs. When I get into unfamiliar terrain or it gets a little sketchy working boulders allows me to trust that little nubin or know that I can hang on that crimper a little longer while plugging a piece. It has certainly improved my climbing. The only negative I can think of about boulding is that my best climbing partners don't like it.
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photon
Aug 28, 2003, 9:18 PM
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gotta love bouldering
1. it's as fun as any type of climbing
2. it's reducing the lines at popular cliffs lately
3. power power power
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dlintz
Aug 28, 2003, 9:19 PM
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In reply to: You can't boulder if you aren't hanging. You can't climb trad unless you are hanging... and you certainly have to Pull Off the Ground to get anywhere with any of them.
Hmm, interesting. Let's take it one step further for absolute purity: TOUCHING!
"Touching" is where you actually touch the rock. You can't POG or HANG if you aren't TOUCHING. This is the essence of all disciplines.
"Dude, the sent this wicked T4+ touch problem yesterday, it took me three tries to figure out where to put my left thumb."
:lol:
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curt
Aug 28, 2003, 9:23 PM
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No, no, no. "T" is already used for the "Troll" scale. You're going to need create a whole other rating system for touching. Hahahaha
Curt
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flyinghatchet
Aug 28, 2003, 9:25 PM
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What about the "F" scale then, for "feel"?
G$
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wc
Aug 28, 2003, 9:31 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: You can't boulder if you aren't hanging. You can't climb trad unless you are hanging... and you certainly have to Pull Off the Ground to get anywhere with any of them. Hmm, interesting. Let's take it one step further for absolute purity: TOUCHING! "Touching" is where you actually touch the rock. You can't POG or HANG if you aren't TOUCHING. This is the essence of all disciplines. "Dude, the sent this wicked T4+ touch problem yesterday, it took me three tries to figure out where to put my left thumb." :lol:
Now your just being silly. How could you possibly capture the essence of climbing by "touching" a rock? :roll: There isn't even an objective way to rate the problems? What is the point of "touching" a rock if you can't spray about how hard it was when you touched it that way? How would you ever know who the best "toucher" is... without meeting them (I mean ME) in person of course...
(yes, deep in my heart I know you are correct... touching rock is the essence of climbing... boiled down to its purest form... from now on I am a rock toucher... not a rock hanger... or rock climber... thanks for helping me see the only true path)
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stewbabby
Aug 28, 2003, 9:40 PM
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Ok... I dont have time to read this entire thread, but ill put in my 2 cents.... i come from an area where there is great boldering..... BUT unfortunately some of the boldering areas here in the south have either been shut down or almost shut down on severa occasions.... Just to name a couple are hp40 and LRC.... Both of these areas have been shut down over the past few years..... One of the reasons that they were shut down (not the only reason) was because of young punk bolderers who think that they own the world.... The fact of the matter is that unless the rock is in your back yard you have NO say.... When a bunch of kids roll up on a group of rocks and start yelling profanities when they fall off of their latest v8 problem it looks bad to the landowner.... Also the younger generation of climbers seem to have a total lack of respect for other peoples property.... leaving their redbull cans, tape, and other crap everywhere..... I know that this is not all bolderers, but there are a lot of young people with maxi pads in the woods.....
[/rant]
stewart
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dingus
Aug 28, 2003, 10:00 PM
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Because we deserve it.
DMT
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shank
Aug 28, 2003, 10:02 PM
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I don't dislike bouldering, or boulderers. I dislike some peoples attitudes.
I like to boulder. there is no doubt in my mind that it is a good way to get strong. I also lead sport. I am scared of trad,but do it on occasion.
I think the people with the bad attitudes sti nk and I don't want to be around them. But I have never been around a CLIMBERwith a bad attitude.
I think the reason most people bash bouldering is because of the internet persona most boulderer portray. Nothing personal.
"The best climber is the one having the most fun"
Do what you like and don't judge other people by what they like.
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junaid
Aug 28, 2003, 10:02 PM
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because they have the bad attitude.
I've been climbing for a year now and I just bought my first sport rack. The way I look at is this; I climb to: have fun, sweat, get better, and enjoy nature. I don't climb to: think I'm all that and a bag of chips, get down on those that can't climb the stuff I can, get down on those that climb different stuff.
I live on Oahu, the main climbing area is nice, but sometimes I like to go to Waimea Bay and boulder. the sand is a great crash pad and the ocean (and girls in bikinis) provide excellent scenery. so to all you haters, just climb and don't get down on people because the climbing they do is not the same type as what you do.
to answer your question though, its the height thing, they think that boulderers just climb 'safe' stuff with no potential for danger. they don't realize that the best climbing is when you are safe and having fun.
peace----
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climbingjunky
Aug 28, 2003, 10:57 PM
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There's a lot of negativity on this issue. I'm not sure what the climbing scene is like where you all live but all the climbers I've met and spoken to sport, trad, bouldering have all been nice and helpful towards each other. None of this aweful vibe. For those of you that dis other climnbing styles or make bouldering look bad, you don't deserve any respect. Find a new hobby! :o
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moabbeth
Aug 28, 2003, 11:29 PM
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I think there's kind of a perception that boulderers are a little more cocky, more likely to be spraylords about what they're working, it's more of a competitve and social activity rather than being roped up climbing up a rock with your partner. I think it's cause it attracts a younger crowd with a lot more testosterone pumping than other forms of climbing. You don't often see someone 8 pitches up a trad climb with 5 friends looking on yelling "f*cking send it dude, send it!!!". Not that I personally think there's anything wrong with that, but bouldering is an activity that doesn't get far off the ground, thus more people are going to see and hear what you're doing if you're only 5 feet off the ground as opposed to being roped up 300 ft off the deck. And as in every crowd, a few loudmouthed obnoxious people can get an overall behaved crew a bad name.
And please don't flame me for this observation, but I see more bragging and flame waring among boulderers on this site than any other area. You don't see aid climbers bashing back and forth about whether they used a hook or a leeper cam on a move, but you often see big time wars going on about what's a real V3 and how there's no way someone climbed a v8, etc. Just an observation.
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climber49er
Aug 29, 2003, 1:29 AM
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WC is gettin' freaky...
Let's take it a step further...
Purity = Mental Sending
No need to mess up the fragile rock ecosystems. Just find a line and MS it!
Ahhhh, satisfying.
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climber49er
Aug 29, 2003, 1:31 AM
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Dude, I just got the FA of the worlds first MS17. Crazy gnarly highball at that! Look into my mind and imagine it with me!
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frankfurter
Aug 29, 2003, 1:40 AM
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I am a boulderer, does anyone wanna front? That's what I thought! Ya can't hate on the bouldering foos!
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tenn_dawg
Aug 29, 2003, 1:45 AM
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In reply to: Dude, I just got the FA of the worlds first MS17. Crazy gnarly highball at that! Look into my mind and imagine it with me!
Dude, I send MS17 in my flip flops.
Travis
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bvb
Aug 29, 2003, 2:21 AM
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hi everyone,
i'm relatively new to the sport and some of this conversation has confused me, but i really want to learn.
what exactly is bouldering?
it just jumpng from boulder to boulder like in the movies? maybe that's why climbers make fun of boulderers -- because it's not really climbing?
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moabbeth
Aug 29, 2003, 2:32 AM
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[quote="curt"]In reply to: I think the responses to this question that cite age as a reason are somewhat off-point, except to the extent that the obnoxious "boom-box" toting boulderers--who are highly visible--are usually young. There are plenty of us old guys who have been climbing in all forms (trad, sport, walls, bouldering, etc.) for more years than most young climbers have been alive. Curt
Great point. Valid one too. But I think the bad rap that bouldering sometimes gets from non-boulderers is because of the point you mentioned above. It only takes a few loudmouths oozing 'tude to give a bad perception of the sport to non-boulderers. I dunno, is it cause of the gym climate that helps breed that then it makes it's way outside? Or was bouldering always like that over the years and just not as high profile?
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curt
Aug 29, 2003, 2:38 AM
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[quote="moabbeth"]In reply to: In reply to: I think the responses to this question that cite age as a reason are somewhat off-point, except to the extent that the obnoxious "boom-box" toting boulderers--who are highly visible--are usually young. There are plenty of us old guys who have been climbing in all forms (trad, sport, walls, bouldering, etc.) for more years than most young climbers have been alive. Curt Great point. Valid one too. But I think the bad rap that bouldering sometimes gets from non-boulderers is because of the point you mentioned above. It only takes a few loudmouths oozing 'tude to give a bad perception of the sport to non-boulderers. I dunno, is it cause of the gym climate that helps breed that then it makes it's way outside? Or was bouldering always like that over the years and just not as high profile?
No, I think you are right. I can't remember 20 years ago seeing loud groups of boulderers who would draw attention to themselves.
Curt
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curt
Aug 29, 2003, 2:39 AM
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In reply to: hi everyone, i'm relatively new to the sport and some of this conversation has confused me, but i really want to learn. what exactly is bouldering? it just jumpng from boulder to boulder like in the movies? maybe that's why climbers make fun of boulderers -- because it's not really climbing?
Aren't n00bs funny?
Curt
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karmaklimber
Aug 29, 2003, 3:40 AM
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In reply to: When I started climbing one of the first things that impressed itself on me was how freaking nice all of the climbers I met were. Whether outdoors or in the gym, stronger or more experienced climbers always encouraged me, which contributed so much to my already thorough enjoyment of the sport. Recently I’ve seen a growing number of people, mostly on this and other climbing sites, who have decided that they need to express – often loudly and rudely – that the type of climbing that they choose to participate in is somehow “better” than other forms of climbing. I think this is really sad, not just because the climbing community used to be so welcoming, but also because climbing is reaching a historical point where some major decisions are going to have to be made by both climbers and land managers regarding land use, recreational access, environmental protection, and other issues that ALL climbers have to deal with whether they like it or not. I’m not interested in entertaining arguments about what forms of climbing have the most of the least impact or will be more or less affected by these issues/decisions. I have my own thoughts, but they are for another forum, or a PM if you’re interested. The fact is that to one degree or another, ALL OF US WILL BE AFFECTED and all of us need to be thinking about these issues with our common interest in mind. On a more philosophical note, we all climb because we love it, and we know that most other people don’t understand this love. Certainly whether you love trad, sport, bouldering, aid, ice, or whatever (heaven forbid that you might love more than one!), enough of this love is shared between us that we can understand why others might enjoy a different aspect of climbing than us, no?
BUMP
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spacecowboy
Aug 29, 2003, 4:11 AM
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More pure my ass. Not to sound like a jerk here, i boulder too. But bouldering is in my opinion the least 'pure' of climbing. So many rules, you have to start a problem sitting down, you can't use this side wall or else your off the problem, you finish when you reach this arbitrary crimp, etc. If you want to argue it, seems to me alpine is more pure, it's you and the mountain, gear doesn't get in the way, it saves your life...if you don't want to place any, don't place any. Anything with rules can't be pure.
Although I do enjoy sitting on a large pad drinking soda and then still getting to call my self a climber at the end of the day.
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jipstyle
Aug 29, 2003, 4:51 AM
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In reply to: If I understand this correctly you are saying that free soloing is missing an integral part of the climbing experience and is not in the spirit of climbing as people who do it only free climb.
That is a good point ... I hadn't considered it, and you seem to have found a flaw in my argument. :)
In reply to: Get a grip on reality. Free climbing is a major part of the spirit of climbing.
Learn to be civil. There is no need to be insulting ... I didn't flame you, did I?
In reply to: As for bashing bouldering; enjoy your rock hopping. I need some exposure to get the adrenaline flowing but to each his/her own.
Thanks ... I will ... regardless of whether that was an attempt at sarcasm in your first sentence.
The great thing about climbing, I hope you'll agree, is that it provides so many people so much pleasure. That's it, really. It's fun.
Let's all keep it that way. :)
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camhead
Aug 29, 2003, 5:12 AM
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I think it is high time that the boulderers and traddies ganged up on the real ethically challenged:
Sportos.
Boulderers are hella strong. Traddies have balls. Sportos just hangdog a lot and get pumped without facing any major consequences. They don't top out either.
Think about it: trad and bouldering have more in common with each other than with sport.
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gatorclimber
Aug 29, 2003, 5:14 AM
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I havent posted in a while but I had to add something to this one. There is one thing that needs to be defined here and that is respect. That is what it is all about. My climbing is more pure than your climbing (whining), is disappointing to read on a Climbing community forum. This discussion of which form of climbing is better should not even be taking place. If a new climber were to come here and read some of these replies, I have a feeling it would change their opinion of climbers in general. I have respect for all forms of climbing. The question of weather or not bouldering is climbing, or which form is the best has never entered my mind. Personally I boulder and tope rope. People that trad are just other climbers to which I smile and say hi to. I may not share their passion but I have respect for them and what they do. I regard myself as a fellow climber, period. I am not a boulderer, I am a climber, and other climbers who trad climb are not trad climbers, they are just climbers, like me. It is sad to see the climbing community becoming divided like this. I think we need to return to the original question, why do people bash bouldering? Think of it like this: rather than people trying to isolate what exactly it is about bouldering which makes people bash it, try thinking about what exactly makes people feel the need to bash bouldering? or any other form of climbing. IMHO, it comes from the recent trendifaction(?) of climbing. I have not been climbing for very long at all (about 1 year). Living in Florida, I had no clue about anything having to do with climbing. One weekend I went to the UF climbing tower at this recreational lake we have, just for fun because I was bored. I was hooked. I started coming back after classes, by myself, and trying to see how many times I could make it around the base of the tower because it was closed and no one would belay me. I eventaully joined a climbing gym near campus and started to get in touch with the meager climbing community in Gainesville. So I am relativly isolated from "trendy climbers" by which I mean those who want no real experience with climbing other than hanging out with their friends and looking cool (the actual climbing part is incidental). The point is this: my lowly "tower traverses", my gym climbing, my few trips to Rocktown and HP40, are all fullfilling to me as a climber. Climbers are all drawn to the physical and mental diciplines required in climbing. During those first few weeks circling the tower, I was a climber. I felt the call. How I answered did not matter. Those who are following the climbing "trend" are not climbers, and should not be grouped in with those of us who truely enjoy climbing. The climbing community would be better off removing the barriers between the different "types" of climbing. We all share the same calling, and it is this which makes us climbers. And as such we should respect how each of us answer that calling, from going around the bottom of some University climbing tower, to summiting all the peaks in tibet. "To each his own" so to speak. For those who say that boulderers are loud and obnoxious, sometimes I have to agree with you. But, they are part of our climbing community, and their form of climbing is just a valid as any other. We as a community should talk to them as friends and explain to them why it is disrespectful to leave trash everywhere, or rude to blast a boom box 20 miles back into a beautiful forest, far away from any form of civilization. We should do the same for any fellow climber trad, alpine etc. We should always have respect for others' forms of climbing. The decision of which form is better is a personal decision that should be based only on which brings them the most pleasure. In the end we all have the same passion, and climbing would truely be boring if everyone did nothing but trad, or nothing but bouldering.
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moabbeth
Aug 29, 2003, 5:24 AM
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In reply to: I think it is high time that the boulderers and traddies ganged up on the real ethically challenged: Sportos. Boulderers are hella strong. Traddies have balls. Sportos just hangdog a lot and get pumped without facing any major consequences. They don't top out either. Think about it: trad and bouldering have more in common with each other than with sport.
Nice!!! I hadn't thought about it that way before. Where's the tradster/boulderer love???
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collegekid
Aug 29, 2003, 5:26 AM
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quit wining and go climb you wussies.
there are so many people talking out their asses on here, it's not even funny (well, actually it is).
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apollodorus
Aug 29, 2003, 5:29 AM
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Climbing is inherently about going up. So, climbers who don't go up very high are seen by some as being at the bottom of the food chain. On a website like RC, there are predators, who naturally focus on boulderers.
For my money, though, sport climbing is worse than bouldering. And even worse than that are the fake walls.
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metoliusmunchkin
Aug 29, 2003, 7:37 AM
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Michael (xanx),
Watch me now in awe as I disregard all other posts in this thread but your own!
Seemingly, you have a great respect for all aspects of our wonderful sport. As do I. Your esteem for the very nature of other forms of climbing, although you do not practice them, is something I can definitively relate to.
As a fellow boulderer who also respects climbing, I wish to personally presage this perfect piece of pensive information:
Let it be.
If other climbers should "bash" your love, you can do any of the following: disregard their comments, bash their love, bash their face.
The choice is yours. Let us hope your choice is to continue bouldering, and crankin' hard.
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climber49er
Aug 29, 2003, 8:20 AM
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I think people bash boulders because they are trying to climb up them. Sometimes their arms and legs just get carried away. I don't think the boulders mind much... :roll:
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hellclimber
Aug 29, 2003, 11:27 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Get a grip on reality. Free climbing is a major part of the spirit of climbing. Learn to be civil. There is no need to be insulting ... I didn't flame you, did I?
No you didn't. I apologize. Working kind of hard these days and 3-4 hours of sleep every 24 hours or so isn't doing much good for my politeness. Not having climbed for almost a week doesn't help either.
In reply to: In reply to: As for bashing bouldering; enjoy your rock hopping. I need some exposure to get the adrenaline flowing but to each his/her own. Thanks ... I will ... regardless of whether that was an attempt at sarcasm in your first sentence.
Guess that first sentence does come off like a derogatory remark. Probably because I don't see what's so fun about bouldering. To each his/her own as I said. Just because I don't understand it doesn't make it a better or worse thing to do. Just different from what I like. Enjoy your bouldering.
In reply to: The great thing about climbing, I hope you'll agree, is that it provides so many people so much pleasure. That's it, really. It's fun. Let's all keep it that way. :)
Well, we kind of agree. The great thing about climbing for me is that it provides me with so much pleasure. It's fun for me. Why other people climb doesn't matter.
Climb on.
hellclimber
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wc
Aug 29, 2003, 3:05 PM
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In reply to: is it just jumpng from boulder to boulder like in the movies? maybe that's why climbers make fun of boulderers -- because it's not really climbing?
You got it, "bouldering hopping" is what we used to call it back when I was young. Now these wankers carry pads on their backs incase they tip over. And they wear sticky shoes so they don't slip around as much. I'd like to see them hop ("send" in modern lingo) some of the jumps ("problems" these days) that I did back in the day with my old K-Mart clod hoppers.
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wc
Aug 29, 2003, 3:09 PM
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In reply to: WC is gettin' freaky... Let's take it a step further... Purity = Mental Sending
Damn... you da man!!! Ever consider teaching zen? Ah... I get it... you already are!!! You truly are a master of mental Judo. You have pushed me to the next level, much gratitude sensai...
Any advice on how to fix my "mental flapper?"
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climbingjunky
Aug 29, 2003, 3:43 PM
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At first I thought, that's an interesting concept. WC, there comes a point when it's no longer considered funny or amusing. It has reached that end. This thread is getting stupid. I don't see the point of continuing this. Noones opnion will change, and frankly I don't think anybody really cares what others think. Can someone lock this yet before all hell breaks loose! Just climb dammit! :lol:
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wc
Aug 29, 2003, 3:57 PM
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In reply to: WC, there comes a point when it's no longer considered funny or amusing. It has reached that end.
Interesting, I just got a PM that complimented me on my contributions to this thread. I'm terribly sorry for failing to amuse you indy, but that was not my intention... my intention was to probe the very essence of climbng in general, so that we might come to terms with why we pursue such an activity. Only through understanding the true nature of our actions can we come to live in peace and harmony with each other.
I am now eternally grateful to climber49er (and all other intermediate conveyors) for helping me grasp the essence of my relationship with stone.
Numbassday
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t-dog
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Aug 29, 2003, 3:59 PM
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Bouldering gets bashed for two main reasons:
One, it's not as involveda as Trad climbing, which can be very important on your mental ability to do a move when you're runout over a micro cam.
And Two, boulderers seem in a general sense to have less respect for the environment than other climbers (although I've seen some really stoopid sh!t going on at Williamson), and this causes areas to get closed down, which makes no-one happy.
But then again, as someone pointed out, they make the cliffs less crowded and that rules.
P.S. I myself am mostly a boulderer.
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climbingjunky
Aug 29, 2003, 4:03 PM
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WC, You've got to be kidding me. I sensed some sarcasm in your posts. I didn't realize you were so serious about it. I can't wait to read your other posts! Why are so many people overanalysing climbing? Just climb dammit! :P
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braaaaaaaadley
Aug 29, 2003, 4:06 PM
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Because bouldering is BOORING... good way to practice climbin, but those who solely boulder I do not understand.
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wc
Aug 29, 2003, 4:11 PM
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In reply to: You've got to be kidding me. I sensed some sarcasm in your posts. I didn't realize you were so serious about it. I can't wait to read your other posts! :P
Why wait? My life is an open book. As the founding member of the "Quest for Universal Awareness and Conscious Knowledge" I extend a sincere invitation to all conscious beings to probe their own existence, as well as that of every other conscious being. What you learn from others is often what you must learn about yourself in order to progress. Happy probing...
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tenn_dawg
Aug 29, 2003, 4:26 PM
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I'm gonna do some PROBING TONIGHT!!
HUH? EH? Who's with me?
*Looks around for someone to give him a "high five" then drops his head, and walks away*
Travis
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cracklover
Aug 29, 2003, 4:57 PM
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The way this thread is progressing reminds me of something I meant to say, oh, three or four pages ago.
Any of you out there ever climbed at the Gunks? Well there's pretty good bouldering there, but there's a saying "Bouldering at the Gunks is like masturbating at a whorehouse". Mind you I have nothing against masturbating per se, but the stuff I see there is more like some kind of big circle jerk. A dozen people surreptitiosly grouped around some ritual object covered with ugly white crap, all screaming and yelling and carrying on. Man, it just turns my stomach. I mean, sure, free soloing is a way to reach down and touch a deep part of your soul. Bouldering on your own can be fun training, or just fun for its own sake, and even bouldering with a partner can be fun. But please, people, leave the circle-jerks to the 12 yo's. They don't know any better. Where's your sense of decorum? And if you really do think it's the best thing you can get, why on earth would you tell other people. Sheesh!
Here's a couple random photos I found on the web. I think they speak for themselves.
http://www.0friction.com/...riction_pic_1479.jpg
I mean, is this attractive?
Or how about this one.
http://www.bouldering.co.za/...ee%20table%20big.jpg
The original caption for this photo is:
"Problem 2001 H1 (6B), aka "The Coffee Table". Here the score is Coffee Table 1, Mark Johnston 0 ..."
Kind of pitiful, don't you think?
GO
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norskagent
Aug 29, 2003, 5:09 PM
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ummm, I imagine people boulder at the gunks because that's where the boulders are, not because they want to shun the classic routes there. Groups of immature hippie-kids do give bouldering a bad rep, but there are many bolderers that don't fit that profile...how many virgin cliffs have you found? How many classic routes have you developed? I've found boulder FIELDS and established many quality problems, and I enjoy going to classic boldering areas just as much...btw, I trad and sport climbed for 15+ years before boldering exclusively so at least I have a balenced perspective.
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boulderman
Aug 29, 2003, 5:20 PM
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Sh*t.... man, that dude needs to take a stiff wire brush and clean all the moss off that rock.
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norskagent
Aug 29, 2003, 5:25 PM
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I could post a pic of some chossy chimney at the gunks and another of midnight lightning for comparison...
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lemurboy
Aug 29, 2003, 5:28 PM
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Why Bash anyone, who cares what a trad climber thinks. Bouldering has its own set of rules. Just because some one can crank V10 and cant even do a crack climb doesnt make them a worse climber. It just doesnt suit them. If everyone quit worrying about what other people think, I think that we would all get along a lot better.
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climbingjunky
Aug 29, 2003, 5:30 PM
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In reply to: A dozen people surreptitiosly grouped around some ritual object covered with ugly white crap, all screaming and yelling and carrying on. Man, it just turns my stomach. I mean, sure, free soloing is a way to reach down and touch a deep part of your soul. Bouldering on your own can be fun training, or just fun for its own sake, and even bouldering with a partner can be fun. But please, people, leave the circle-jerks to the 12 yo's. They don't know any better. Where's your sense of decorum? And if you really do think it's the best thing you can get, why on earth would you tell other people. Sheesh!
I am hope i used the quoting function right. As far as your comment. What's wrong with having a group of people cheering each other on? It's a positive thing. If it's too loud then why don't you say something. Bouldering can be an individual sport or social event. Bouldering is not training, it's a form of climbing. What exactly do you find so jerky about that group? Who are you to say how they should act like? Maybe you're just being specific about that particular group or are you labelling all boulderers? Why are you complaining? Why are you so critical? Do your own thing and respect others unless their creating trouble for you of course.
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norskagent
Aug 29, 2003, 5:36 PM
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I'm not worried about what elite-ist, snobby, stuck-up trad clmbers think.
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climbingjunky
Aug 29, 2003, 6:11 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: What exactly do you find so jerky about that group? Wow. Whoosh - right over their heads. If you don't know what a circle-jerk is, look it up. If you don't know why grown-ups don't want to see it, much less engage in it, I guess I can't help you! GO
This is the definition i found on the internet: A circle jerk is a kind of competition between guys where they have to sit in a circle(sounds logical). Then they put an -All american- cookie in the middle and they start to jerk off.Finally,the last one to come(or cumm) has to eat the cookie. Hoping that you'll never lose,i'll go on with what this page is really about.
So you're saying that this particular group were doing this in front of a boulder? Interesting.
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climber49er
Aug 29, 2003, 6:26 PM
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All american cookie?
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joshy8200
Aug 29, 2003, 6:27 PM
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Y'all...I admit that for a short while I started to become one of those trad climbers that looked down at bouldering and even started to shun sport routes. And I had only been trad climbing for about 2 years.
What I think gets to the heart of most trad (or like mountaineer climbers) is getting to the top of something with just yourself, some gear, and a rope. Getting to the top of a big multi-pitch cliff, anchoring in, getting your second up, and then sitting there enjoying the achievment. What I got caught up in was that why climb a 10ft boulder? What achievment is there in that? I wanted big and scenic cliffs. While some of my friends were cranking down on boulder problems in the gym, I would run laps on the routes to increase endurance.
Then as my trad level started to increase, I started realizing that although never tired from climbing a route, I noticed I wasn't really getting a lot better. I wasn't moving up and climbing harder routes as quickly as my friends (who weren't doing trad but were bouldering V5 and V6 and redpointing into the 5.12). I was like man...I can climb 5.9-5.10 trad all day.
So I started thinking and talking to my trad climbing partner (who I started realizing bouldered quite a bit too). And he was like bouldering will make you a lot more confident to make those hard moves on harder trad routes. Then I remember a little thing I read in Climbing mag about Linville Gorge, saying something about weather the first ascentionist had been bouldering over the winter before he put up this hard line.
And that's when I realized that bouldering isn't something to be looked down upon at all. Do some really hard problem and sitting atop the rock proud of what you have done is similar enough to climbing a big route. I ain't saying I would do it exclusively...but then again why isolate yourself to one part of climbing (why only be a trad climber, or boulder, or sport). All of them play off of each other. We're all climbers. We're all out to have fun and do what we love to do.
As for any problems with looking down upon boulderers as young and gym rats or whatever else you want to call them. So what...they're are assholes in all aspects of life. No need getting bent out of shape over them. Why not try to educate them in a civil manner...maybe help them to become a better person, as well as a better climber. We should all do our part to make the crags a better place. Not only socially (since we're all out there to have fun) but a better place environmentally.
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climbingjunky
Aug 29, 2003, 6:37 PM
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Joshy, you just summed up my opinions on this topic! WoOt! I love all types of climbing, even treeclimbing! Dynoing from branch to branch! Great fun. :)
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joshy8200
Aug 29, 2003, 7:31 PM
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Ohhh man...I didn't even think about tree climbing. And on that note...climbing anything. Man I like to climb on anything! I'll climb on trees, on buildings, rock walls (like cemented together rock), statues, monuments, ropes, the doorways of my apartment, over balconies of dorms...
CLIMBING IS CLIMBING! WE SHOULD ALL GET ALONG!!! Everyone should share the crags and do their part to make it a better place in all aspects.
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mowz
Aug 29, 2003, 8:08 PM
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I have an answer to all this ruckus:
WHO CARES????!!!!!
Damn it, climbers are climbers and that's it. So what if one boulders and two doesn't. If two wants to bash boulderers and/or bouldering, let him/her. If one wants to bash other types of climbing that are not bouldering, let him/her. If peeps just did what made them happy and cared less about what others think or do (aka mind your own B.W.) then things would be a lot happier. Everyone who says bouldering is better or bouldering is not as great sounds like everyone else's mom and dad. Your parents used to ( and some still do) say. " Hey, don't do that. It won't be fun" or "hey, why don't you try this. What your doing is wrong." You peeps are starting to sound like your parents and worst of all, you peeps are starting to sound like my parents.
You know what? F**k what I just said. Go on and keep arguing. Maybe this crap will get so big that we all start killing each other over who's right. Then when all the climbers who care are dead, we'll be left with only the ones that CLIMB, period.
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tungsten_carbide
Aug 30, 2003, 1:46 AM
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I like any type of climbing, personally.
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tenn_dawg
Aug 30, 2003, 3:56 AM
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Moved to Bouldering...
Travis
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solid
Aug 30, 2003, 4:41 AM
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is there someone that hits rewind and play on this tape every few months?
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rcaret
Aug 30, 2003, 5:35 AM
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They probably bash bouldering because the have forgotten how to enjoy the simpler things in life!
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bebohaseltine
Aug 30, 2003, 8:00 AM
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Well, I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They are also entitled to express their opinions. Notice I didn't say bash. I have gotten heavy into bouldering. NO, there isn't a big "scene" of "loud mouthed beanie wearing kids" out here. In fact, I've never gone bouldering with more than one other person. I enjoy climbing, but I climb in groups, and I'm sorry, when there is rock surrounding me, I'm not going to sit on my butt and spectate. I'm going to CLIMB. It builds strength, and I use it as an opportunity to work on holds/moves that I'm having trouble with. That's my little opinion.
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jipstyle
Aug 30, 2003, 4:19 PM
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In reply to: I apologize. Working kind of hard these days and 3-4 hours of sleep every 24 hours or so isn't doing much good for my politeness. Not having climbed for almost a week doesn't help either.
It's all good. I understand. I've been frantically searching for a place to live and a job since I moved from one coast of Canada (Halifax, NS) to the other (Vancouver, BC) ... so I understand stress. :)
And I haven't climbed in almost a month. :shock: :cry:
In reply to: Climb on. hellclimber
To quote rrradam, who is rapidly becoming my favourite member of this site for his levelheadedness and love of our sport ... climb on brutha! :D
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jipstyle
Aug 30, 2003, 4:34 PM
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In reply to: Happy probing...
I knew it! You're an ALIEN!!!!
/me runs in fear from wc's anal probing.
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climbingjunky
Aug 30, 2003, 6:54 PM
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How long is this thread gonna go? Next person to post another message after me is a dork! :lol:
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coldclimb
Aug 30, 2003, 7:22 PM
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It's already been well established from trusted sources that I'm a dork! :lol: This just proves it.
Gotta love blind stubbornness! Without it, threads like this would die long before their time. :D
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stonefiend
Aug 31, 2003, 2:12 AM
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this thread is horrible..
give's me a new opinion of climbing though. didn't realize there was such a biased crowd. sad isn't it?
i love all aspects of climbing..
whatever the style, or difficulty.. all of you are climbing a fahking peice of stone. get over it.
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bvb
Aug 31, 2003, 6:50 AM
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check out the real fuucklin mccoy at www.bvb.com
werd -- this guy is CORE
or, go to b.com for some intelligent, civilized conversation.
and stfu, n00bs.
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teddy
Aug 31, 2003, 7:52 AM
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I only read the first page and i know this last page has just been boredom of this thread but still here's my 2c
My theory is that it is much the opposite of penis envy, the closer to the ground (or smaller) the climb. The more people hate it. I mean think about it, you start with Trad/Aid (noone really bashes them) people who climb these most of the time pay out sport climbers, who bash boulderers, who ALL rip on gym climbers. To each their own, i mean Trad/Aid congrats to you - more balls than i have, Sport climbing is fun although i wish i got to do more of it, Bouldering is great because you need almost no gear, and gym climbing is the most accesible and versatile in the one place. So why don't you all just stop paying each other out
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wc
Sep 3, 2003, 8:12 PM
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In reply to: check out the real fuucklin mccoy at www.bvb.com
Damn, I wish there was a bvb.com Talk about entertainment... stories from back in the day, canoeing trip reports, beached whale pics...
http://home.earthlink.net/...ibex/bob_cuticle.jpg
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the_crawler
Sep 3, 2003, 9:18 PM
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One of the major points on which boulders get hasseled on is this lack metal component. In roped climbing there is sense of mentally overcoming the fear and being able to deal with it. Ropers have a misconception that bouldering has done away with this aspect of climbing. I disagree, I think bouldering does the opposite it shows the climber how the mental part is the limiting factor alot of times. Point: if you could do routes as hard as your hardest boulder problem at what level would you climb routes. Why can't you , I think its a mental issue not a physical one. Bash bouldering at you own peril, limit yourself and you hold yourself back. Understand what each aspect of climbing has to teach and become a more well rounded climber. Labeling things like this as good or bad or right and wrong is an attempt to keep yourself from having to face the truth, that you are holding on to you own weaknesses. The things you hate the most are things you understand the least.
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herm
Sep 7, 2003, 6:40 AM
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I boulder all winter long. It seems that folks around here rag on "matress backs" mostly because of the increase in popularity of bouldering; their favorite spots that they think only they use are now overrun with young people having fun and maybe even climbing too hard for propriety. Going cordless is cool, but don't let it limit you. 8)
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drkodos
Jan 23, 2004, 11:38 PM
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Steven Hatfill here. Congratulations to all participants for engineering the kind of thread that wins people awards!
http://www.jdo.org//images/hatfill.jpg
I know a thing or two about being hijacked, I can tell you. That's why I have signed on to be a presenter for 2004 Renaissance Awards.
I will be the presenter for:
Best Thread Hijacker: Given to the user that best takes a serious discussion and heads it into the toilet. This is a hotly contested category this year, and the winner will have a lot of great competition from some of the old dogs and some of the [violet]nOObs.[/violet]
Nominees will be announced on tuesday, January 28, 2004.
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flagstaff_climber
Jan 23, 2004, 11:44 PM
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They do not own enough gear!
They never seem to have any food !
They always seem to take their shirts off! Well at least the male ones do.
and they start by sitting on the ground with their legs around a rock, that just ain’t dignified :)
But on the upside they are VERY good at falling....
Rick
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dynoguy
Jan 24, 2004, 12:03 AM
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here we go again :lol:
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moabbeth
Jan 24, 2004, 12:26 AM
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In reply to: They always seem to take their shirts off! Well at least the male ones do.
And that's a negative thing why....... :roll: :roll: :wink: !!! More power to 'em!!
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boulderqt
Jan 24, 2004, 1:53 AM
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A. We aren't all lazy people with pillows.
B.some of us boulder cause we don't have a partner or the gear to climb:
but people bash bouldering anyways just because they think that it is fun to do so!
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curt
Jan 24, 2004, 2:05 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: They always seem to take their shirts off! Well at least the male ones do. And that's a negative thing why....... :roll: :roll: :wink: !!! More power to 'em!!
Beth,
Obviously the negative aspect to this is the gender based inequality. :lol:
Curt
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andy_reagan
Jan 24, 2004, 1:58 PM
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In reply to: Obviously the negative aspect to this is the gender based inequality.
Ain't that the truth. :(
Come on, girls. Do one for good ole Nietzsche and support the institution of Toplessness. It starts with one woman at a time. It's simple, slip your hands under the hem of your shirt and pull over your head. Applause will follow. :roll:
Hijack what thread?
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zachallen
Jan 25, 2004, 4:53 AM
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Topless Girls and Climbing.
SOUNDS GOOD!
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oudinardin
Jan 25, 2004, 4:57 AM
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Werd!
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scubasnyder
Jan 25, 2004, 5:07 AM
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bouldering is awsome why would people bash it
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hawgdrver
Jan 25, 2004, 5:13 AM
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In reply to: It's best to avoid blanket statements.
That's a blanket statement.
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muni
Mar 5, 2004, 8:28 PM
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It's simple, people don't like what they are afraid of, or they can not do,
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ldsclimber
Mar 5, 2004, 9:42 PM
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I boulder to get strong, I sport to get endurance, and I trad to get the nerve. It's all climbing in my book.
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flashpumped
Mar 16, 2004, 6:27 PM
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I don't think "bashing boulderers" is the right expression. More like, look at your insecurity. Why need the justification of another's "style" of climbing get you in defense mode. Is it that competitive to claim the best style? I don't think we boulderers get the credit we deserve at times and I also think we are way to "sport driven", i.e. gotta win the comp, gotta do grade n, gotta win, gotta score...sound familiar.
Plain and simple, these "older" styles as I heard someone mention...trad, aid, etc., may not fully comprehend why we boulder...and in turn, most of us see this as a chance to retort "you can't do our sh** cause its so much harder!". That is crap. These styles can be so different in contrast in attitude, desire, and risk...and yet have "climbing" at the end.
I say just climb the way you do because that is the way you want to climb. I boulder because I like the goal to trying to do the hardest moves on rock...I attempt sport because I want endurance and yea I have to admit, firing the crux of a classic route is equally enjoyable sending a project. I don't trad or aid or ice climb because I am afraid of it...because I see it is too hard, too much risk, or I'm too much of a pussy to try.
More fuel for the fire, but damn I want to stop hearing about "purity" and "you don't like it cause you suck at it".
Peace.
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climb_high
Mar 23, 2004, 4:33 PM
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bouldering is even more lame than sport climbing
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mreardon
Mar 23, 2004, 5:48 PM
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Bouldering is cool. It's the gym-driven morons that leave chalkball prints all over the rock, cig butts and tape on the ground, fat pipe marks bigger than the three holds that make the problem, and make the mistake of talking smack without the ability to back it up that make the latest scourge of bouldering lame at best. And don't get me started on the inability to actually spot someone.
Oh wait, no one here ever does that :roll: everyone's f--ing perfect.
---------------
This post has been brought to you by a pissed off boulderer who just came back from a session where gymrats ruined the crag once again, but at least one of them was dickslapped senseless on the forehead.
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micahmcguire
Mar 23, 2004, 6:07 PM
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bouldering is a nice workout, and it helps develop technique. That said, it can't hold a candle to real climbing. "Real" climbing includes the risk of falling from some height. "Real" climbing is overcoming the challenges and dangers of being up higher than your body can withstand a fall from. While bouldering, there is only a small fraction of the fear that a good, tall trad climb throws at you, and a small fraction of the risk. I guess that raises the question-what is "real" climbing? Is it height? Is it risk? Is is equipment? Is it remoteness?
Technically, climbing is trying to weasel your way to the top of something. The aforementioned factors just make it cooler. Climbing is like sex; there are those who don't need much, who keep it low and don't take many "risks," but are satisfied to be porking a hole-and there are those who identify their successes by more than the fact that they "did it," but by how they did it, how long, how hard, how exciting it was, etc. Anyhow, I need to go watch a porn or something, I'll be back.
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mcumbrae
Mar 23, 2004, 6:41 PM
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It´s funny in a bitter way to see that what makes us human is the need to prove everybody else wrong. rrrADAM got it right, from my point of view it is all climbing. Although i consider the purpose of climbing to be GOING UP, the higher the better, i don´t pass the opportunity to work on hard moves a meter off the ground, specially when it is either that or lose a climbing day due to the absence of a partner to belay for me. I also agree with another poster who says that people who only boulder are missing a great deal of what climbing is, but i´d rather leave them to figure it out for themselves than to be a smart ass. We all pursue different goals in climbing, hence the different styles.
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junnos
Mar 23, 2004, 6:44 PM
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It's all in the title. Think about it. They call themseves "Boulderers", NOT "Climbers".
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kalcario
Mar 23, 2004, 6:52 PM
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*there is only a small fraction of the fear that a good, tall trad climb throws at you, and a small fraction of the risk.*
If you are afraid of crack climbing with all the high tech gear that is available today, you are either incompetent or too broke to shell out the $1000 for a rack of SLCDs.
Which do you think is stronger, a #3 camalot in granite, or a bolt in the choss which passes for rock at most sport crags in the US?
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vertical_reality
Mar 23, 2004, 7:33 PM
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Because it's so easy.
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boulder_boy
Mar 24, 2004, 4:22 AM
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In reply to: Because it's so easy.
I wouldnt be saying that.....if you pick a pansy bouldering problem then it may be easy but don't bash on people who boulder by saying its simple. It takes technique, strength, thought, and balance to boulder.....it's just a matter of what you like to do. I like to boulder and do sport climbing because im 16 and dont have the money to shell out a 1000 bucks to buy a trad rack....be thoughtful before you call something easy
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dood
Mar 24, 2004, 5:27 AM
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Bouldering is great! There is something about babes walking around with mattresses strapped to their backs...
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bouldersdothebodygood
Mar 24, 2004, 5:39 AM
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you need technical expertice as in technical climbing skills ( footwork and very technical moves) but not technical ability with gear. i also lead sport climbs so i am not just a pure boulderer but that is mostly what i do i will go bouldering about 2 out of three weekend and sport climbing the other 1. i would like to get into trad the gear is just so costly anyway i dunno why they bash but it is immature i think. bouldering is as much rock climbing as any other kind. plus i have a friend who would rather be on lead 7 feet from his last protection or more than be 15 feet up on a boulder. it is all one sport why must we fight bad karma
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kalcario
Mar 24, 2004, 5:49 AM
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*It takes technique, strength, thought, and balance to boulder.....it's just a matter of what you like to do. I like to boulder and do sport climbing because im 16 and dont have the money to shell out a 1000 bucks to buy a trad rack....be thoughtful*
Yeah but the problem is, the more time you spend bouldering, the harder it is to break away from it and function at the crags when your pads and spotters are not six feet away. Bouldering might improve your physical ability to climb but, and I see this all the time when boulderers actually dare to show up at the crags, it messes you up mentally.
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boulder_boy
Mar 24, 2004, 6:26 AM
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actually not really I do lots of sport routes all the time. I usually do 2-3 routes a day but if im not feelin it ill go do some bouldering and have fun hangin out with my buds...maybe for some its hard to pull away, but not really a problem here
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curt
Mar 24, 2004, 6:38 AM
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In reply to: *there is only a small fraction of the fear that a good, tall trad climb throws at you, and a small fraction of the risk.* If you are afraid of crack climbing with all the high tech gear that is available today, you are either incompetent or too broke to shell out the $1000 for a rack of SLCDs. Which do you think is stronger, a #3 camalot in granite, or a bolt in the choss which passes for rock at most sport crags in the US?
Why Joe,
I do believe you have unconsciously let some of your trad roots show through. Hahahaha.
Curt
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micahmcguire
Mar 24, 2004, 5:43 PM
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kalcario, I climb in the high Chugach. Nothing is bomber. If you knew anything about that, you'd have just shut up and agreed. However, there is no way you can sell me on the idea that falling on a good cam in a good crack is safer than falling from 5 feet off the ground onto a mattress. That is silly.
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vertical_reality
Mar 24, 2004, 6:05 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Because it's so easy. I wouldnt be saying that.....if you pick a pansy bouldering problem then it may be easy but don't bash on people who boulder by saying its simple. It takes technique, strength, thought, and balance to boulder.....it's just a matter of what you like to do. I like to boulder and do sport climbing because im 16 and dont have the money to shell out a 1000 bucks to buy a trad rack....be thoughtful before you call something easy
I didn't say anything about bouldering being easy.
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oafy
Mar 24, 2004, 7:22 PM
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No one bashes bouldering unless they ask for it. F$%K everyone who trashes climbing, its your own thing, you shouldn't care what others think anyways. If your a true climber, you have respect for everyone who participates in it, and every aspect of it, from big wall, to aiding to climbing a 25,000ft mountain in the middle of Nepal or bouldering on a boulder that is 10 ft tall. Were all connected, so respect your own mountain before trying to name another.................
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dredsovrn
Mar 24, 2004, 7:31 PM
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You are right. It is really not fair for us to bash people who aren't smart enough to defend themselves properly. While I boulder sometimes, I do it to get in touch with the commoners of the climbing community. You know, those not gifted with above average intelligence like us trad climbers. :lol:
Really why does anyone care?
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kalcario
Mar 24, 2004, 7:35 PM
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*kalcario, I climb in the high Chugach. Nothing is bomber. If you knew anything about that, you'd have just shut up and agreed.*
This being RC.com, not Alpinism.com, I assumed we were discussing trad climbing as it is commonly referred to around here. Not sure what climbing in the high Chugach involves, but I doubt shorts and t-shirts are.
*However, there is no way you can sell me on the idea that falling on a good cam in a good crack is safer than falling from 5 feet off the ground onto a mattress. That is silly.*
What did I say that contradicts this?
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pdwaugy
Mar 24, 2004, 8:37 PM
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We all climb. It really doesn't matter why we climb or what we climb (ie. boulder, sport, trad, aid), but the fact is we all climb. Now yes some may look down on a type of climbing, but who really cares what some random person thinks about a type of climbing. It all comes down to that we climb because we love the sport.
Waugy
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jgill
Mar 25, 2004, 4:35 AM
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Normally I wouldn't enter such a ridiculous fray, but you should know that bashing others who climb not as you do has considerable historical precedents. Shortly after rock climbing became a separate sport in the late Victorian era notable climbers began leveling accusations and sharpening their sarcastic wits. Eckenstein, the first documented boulderer, enjoyed picking apart the accomplishments of others as much as he prided himself on his own deeds. Geoffrey Winthrop Young wrote disparagingly about attempting moves on boulders harder than those being done on lead at the time, and described Eckenstein perjoratively as "having the build and beard of our first ancestors". Eckenstein's close friend, Aleister Crowley (the beast 666) was scathing in his condemnation of 'the Gymnast', Owen Glynne Jones, for top-roping some of his problems before leading (essentially soloing) them. J. M. Archer-Thomson was critical of Jones as well, and avoided that practice. Almost everyone but Eckenstein despised Crowley. And that was just the beginning . . . 8)
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mrme
Mar 25, 2004, 4:38 AM
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why do you care so much
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curt
Mar 25, 2004, 4:52 AM
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In reply to: Normally I wouldn't enter such a ridiculous fray, but you should know that bashing others who climb not as you do has considerable historical precedents. Shortly after rock climbing became a separate sport in the late Victorian era notable climbers began leveling accusations and sharpening their sarcastic wits. Eckenstein, the first documented boulderer, enjoyed picking apart the accomplishments of others as much as he prided himself on his own deeds. Geoffrey Winthrop Young wrote disparagingly about attempting moves on boulders harder than those being done on lead at the time, and described Eckenstein perjoratively as "having the build and beard of our first ancestors". Eckenstein's close friend, Aleister Crowley ( the beast 666) was scathing in his condemnation of ' the Gymnast', Owen Glynne Jones, for top-roping some of his problems before leading (essentially soloing) them. J. M. Archer-Thomson was critical of Jones as well, and avoided that practice. Almost everyone but Eckenstein despised Crowley. And that was just the beginning . . . 8)
John,
Thanks for posting that. It is actually somewhat comforting to know that all the recent stylistic bickering is nothing new.
Curt
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kalcario
Mar 25, 2004, 6:06 AM
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* Aleister Crowley (the beast 666) was scathing in his condemnation of 'the Gymnast'*
So...he tried to climb K2, was the spiritual founder of Black Sabbath (plus Jimmy Page bought his house)...and bashed boulderers? How ahead of your time can you get?
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dontjinxme
Mar 25, 2004, 6:29 AM
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Me personaly, I respect "Boulderers" for their ability to achieve extremely difficult and some seemingly impossible moves. Sure I might make fun of it in these forums sometimes. But, I always follow up with how impressesive their moves can be.
However, I do not understand the fun behind it. My favorite part of climbing is rappelling. I climb to rappel. Plain and simple. I would just assume take the challenge of getting to the top via a vertical ascent as aposed to a hike.
If bouldering is what you love to do, then so be it. Bouldering in my opinion is not rock climbing and vise versa. Just like cricket is not baseball, and rugby is not football. Sure the principles are somewhat the same. Even though Baseball and football derived from cricket and rugby.
Don't sweat what other people say or think. If you think bouldering is rock climbing, then by god, go rock climb a boulder. Most people spoute their mouths off on the internet far more than they would in real life. I am a case in point. I have never said: "Stand up, and your halfway there." To a boulderer or group of them. I like my arms intact, and do find them somewhat useful from time to time.
I suppose I'll go stand on a stone, and call it...."Stoned" Yea baby, I am a stoner.
JINX
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dirtineye
Mar 25, 2004, 7:55 AM
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Because boulderers deserve it. almost as much as spsort clibmers deserve it.
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yanqui
Mar 25, 2004, 1:41 PM
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kalcario wrote:
Yeah but the problem is, the more time you spend bouldering, the harder it is to break away from it and function at the crags when your pads and spotters are not six feet away. Bouldering might improve your physical ability to climb but, and I see this all the time when boulderers actually dare to show up at the crags, it messes you up mentally.
Yanqui writes:
I've been bouldering an awful lot lately, and I was WONDERING why every time I go to do a hard crag lead these days I wind up peeing all over myself. And I thought it had something to do with the incontinence typically associated with old age.
On the other hand, all this bouldering has made my arms swell up bigger than Arnold Swarzenegger's used to be, back in the old Terminator days. Which makes me quite certain, that if I had to, I could squeeze open the head of a noodley armed crag climber as I would a ripe, old zit.
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rocket
Mar 25, 2004, 7:56 PM
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I too respect boulderers. There are some really strong folks out there and you can learn some great body movement/moves/holds that can be transferred to the wall. Although most prefer the short, power routes that the problems offer them and hey, that's okay.
Also, for those who prefer to climb the sport/trad lines - think of it this way: The more people bouldering the fewer there we be at your favorite crag.
Hey, have fun. To me it's climbing whether its called bouldering, sport, trad, or ice.
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scracus
Apr 1, 2004, 10:22 PM
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Rope climbs are just "big" boulder problems that wish they were shorter(and harder)
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mattmax45
Aug 25, 2004, 8:19 PM
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In reply to: I ask the question why should people respect bouldering? Don't get me wrong, I like bouldering, and do it on a regular basis...however, I don't have much respect for people that climb V10, at least not in the same way I have respect for Mark Twight and Berry Blanchard (sp?). I hold Doug Scott in higher regards then Dave Graham. I probably have more respect for Peter Zabrok then Lisa Rands. Why? Because courage earns respect, crimp strength doesn’t. The other thing is this purity thing…anyone who has done a multi-pitch trad route in the backcountry would never say bouldering is more pure. At least to me, there is nothing better then getting to the top of a route and enjoying the gentle wind, peace, and unpolluted sound as I belay the second up with nothing but air between me and the tree tops below. The longer the journey, the richer the experience.
However at the same time, I've done most styles of climbing, long long ass trad routes and nasty sport, but there is a place that the warriors of martial arts call "the zone", the Samurai said " It is like Sleeping but not Dreaming. in a state of stillness." This can be felt on the hardest of bouldering for me or like JGill said "moving over rock on easy moves feeling and charishing the each move for its uniqueness". My point is that when I'm on my hardest boulder projects I enter "A place of stillness" when time stops, gravity fades and the flow of pure power, energy and chaos come together in harmony, I have never felt this anywhere else, as nowhere else has pushed me into this state of mind as of yet...Even on hard ten pitch trad routes. I know others have felt this to, and probably in climbing stlyes like trad or sport were I haven't yet. And as far as respecting boulders, what about fred nicole? To have the ability to move gracefully across V14 like he's asleep, pretty impressive wouldn't you say.
My .02 cents :)
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drector
Aug 25, 2004, 8:33 PM
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People bash bouldering because they are arogant. It happens in most sports where the guy who plays the sport using xyz bashes the guy who plays using x and y but no z. Golfers who use carts are bashed by the golfers who walk the course as if that has anyting to do with the quality of their strokes or their inate ability to always pick the right club.
I am amazed that there are climbers who can't enjoy bouldering. I've gotten enjoyment from every sport and recreational activity I've ever tried: biking, skiing (snow and water), rafting, spelunking, climbing (all forms, even aid (that's a joke)), ... and the list goes on. I'd like to bash those people who can't find fun just because there is no danger or because there is less equipment to master with the form of the sport they haven't chosen.
I wonder if the water skiers bash the barefoot skiers because they don't master the techniques needed to use a ski?
Not getting a kick out of something is fine. Respecting and not respecting people you don't even know based on your perception of their fears or skills is stupid. I can't repspect or disrespect anyone I have not met. I just don't know them well enough to know what type of person, not climber, they are.
Dave
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weschrist
Aug 25, 2004, 8:46 PM
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In reply to: [There are plenty of us old guys who have been climbing in all forms (trad, sport, walls, bouldering, etc.) for more years than most young climbers have been alive. And guess what? Many of us now prefer bouldering to other types of climbing. So, to say that it is the old guys who are set in their ways that are bashing bouldering is, I think, a mistake. Curt
The reason for your choice of climbing style is obvious. It is much harder to carry scotch and ice while belaying...
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benpullin
Aug 25, 2004, 9:14 PM
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I think most people that bash bouldering do so for two reasons.
One, it makes rock climbing a much more accessible activity to a greater amount of people. There is very little technical expertise needed to boulder. You don't have to learn about ropes, pro, placements, routefinding, etc. -- all the things about roped climbing that take time and experience to become comfortable with. Anybody can drag a pad under a boulder and cast off. And many people resent that. I believe that for some, bouldering for the sake of bouldering is seen as the dumbing-down of a craft.
Two, a lot of the people that bash bouldering/ers aren't very good at it. It's a real ego check when you go to the gym and see a novice (who boulders exclusively) cranking some problem that you can't touch. This is similar to the ongoing crack climber/face climber battle.
Personally, I see bouldering as a tool to improve my route climbing. I do not care to boulder exclusively but I don't see the point of bashing those that do.
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curt
Aug 25, 2004, 9:50 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: There are plenty of us old guys who have been climbing in all forms (trad, sport, walls, bouldering, etc.) for more years than most young climbers have been alive. And guess what? Many of us now prefer bouldering to other types of climbing. So, to say that it is the old guys who are set in their ways that are bashing bouldering is, I think, a mistake. Curt The reason for your choice of climbing style is obvious. It is much harder to carry scotch and ice while belaying...
How true, how true..... :wink:
Curt
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rcaret
Aug 25, 2004, 9:57 PM
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Bouldering , Aid , Trad , Sport , TR it's all good !!!! :righton:
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scubasnyder
Aug 25, 2004, 10:09 PM
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what people say shouldnt change your climbing, if anything it should piss you off and make you work harder to get better.
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slablizard
Aug 25, 2004, 10:32 PM
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I personally have nothing against boulderers or bouldering.
I don't like it so much because it's a little short, and repetitive. I prefer a longer pleasure (safe possibly, otherways I'll take it as it comes )
On the other hand I don't think that a V12 is harder than an 8c, considering all the clips, the exposure and the rest involved in a climb better than a boulder.
It's just that doing a whole route gives me more satisfaction (and endorphines ) than a 5 moves boulder, that's all.
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coylec
Aug 25, 2004, 11:16 PM
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In reply to: ok first off, i'm a boulderer. there. i said it. now, i am just curious why boulderers get bashed so much.
Because its easy and fun.
Don't worry, most of us who are poking fun at boulderers are also poking fun at sport climbers (lycra, much?), trad climbers (dont' climb hard), aid climbers (shiny gear), indoor (gymrats) and pretty much everyone else.
I'd wager that 99.9% of it is in good fun (or just to get a rise out of people).
coylec
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jookyhead
Aug 25, 2004, 11:23 PM
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In reply to: Bouldering in my opinion is not rock climbing and vise versa.
Since when is bouldering not rock climbing? You are climbing rocks are you not? So how in the heck isn't it rockclimbing???
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grigriese
Aug 27, 2004, 12:08 AM
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Like Yuji Hirayama said in the Professionals - he has no "special seperation," he loves it all. It's all climbing.
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jpearl
Aug 27, 2004, 3:03 AM
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Why do people bash boulderers? That's easy to answer:
Rock Climbing Websites.
Not to diss RC.com. I think it's a great site. One thing I've learned tough is this; Rock Climbing (or Bouldering for that matter) is generally a "shut up and just do it" kinda sport. We're all out to have a good time no matter what we climb. Seriously, go to any serious climbing spot. Whenever boulderers with crashpads walk past trad and sport guys laden with gear, the encounter usually consists of nothing more than a smile and a wave.
Now enter the websites. As I said, we are a quiet breed (no matter how hard we curse our brains out on hard routes), so it should come as no surprise that when we are armed with a keyboard, an internet connection, and pent-up non climbing time, it's only natural that threads and "gee, what should I post" threads like this come up.
Trust me, I'm a quasi-climber and a quasi-boulderer. In three plus years of climbing, I've seen tons of bashing on the net, but none at the crags.
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irockclimbtoo
Aug 27, 2004, 3:15 AM
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ab
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veep23
Aug 27, 2004, 3:28 AM
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I sport, trad and boulder. All are fun but... getting up a hard 10 foot rock just doesn't give me that sense of accomplishment, even if I've been trying it for four months. And don't get me going on sit starts! Come on, don't we all feel a little silly doing those?
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mattmax45
Aug 27, 2004, 3:36 AM
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In reply to: I sport, trad and boulder. All are fun but... getting up a hard 10 foot rock just doesn't give me that sense of accomplishment, even if I've been trying it for four months. And don't get me going on sit starts! Come on, don't we all feel a little silly doing those?
Guess it depends on who you are man, I for one have worked problems that took longer than I will admit, however I get the satisfaction in this because I usually climb at my limit and that puts me in a mind state, a "state of stillness" , I usually do not find anywhere else but bouldering, Its kinda like dreaming but climbing at the same time. Deep and wierd, but thats IMO... :D :D
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andy_reagan
Aug 27, 2004, 4:31 PM
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climbing fun
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qcclimber
Aug 28, 2004, 2:52 PM
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People!!! who cars...do what you wanna do and let the bashers bash ...
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qcclimber
Aug 28, 2004, 8:35 PM
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cares* :oops:
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chrisparedes
Aug 28, 2004, 8:54 PM
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No climber should knock on any other form of climbing. Everyone is doing to have fun and enjoy nature. I love top roping and bouldering, and I'm starting to get into lead sport. But bouldering is a great way to biuld strength and an amazing way to learn new technique. Working touch boulder problems will make that 5.10 crux seem like a piece of cake.
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qcclimber
Aug 28, 2004, 9:06 PM
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Thats the true way all climbers should think! nice one Chris!
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cgailey
Aug 28, 2004, 9:21 PM
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I enjoy all aspects of climbing, as many others on this site do. I do however see a progression in how I approach different types of climbing. Bouldering is training for sport, which is training for trad. I get the same feeling no matter what type of climbing I'm doing; however, when I breeze through tough moves. Anyone who experiences this knows what I'm talking about...the calm balance you have when things just go right.
What draws me to trad climbing is the ability to spend a great deal of time on the rock, and the added difficulty placing gear creates. I have a great deal of respect for those who are strong climbers, regardless of style, but I lose respect for them when they flame others for enjoying one style over another.
I'll put it this way...being a climber requires a certain amount of respect...respect for where you climb, respect for those who have gone before you, and respect for your fellow climbers. Egos and attitude should have no place in our sport, even though they do. There will always be those who don't think twice about crushing plants in an already closure sensitive area with their boulder pad, or those who have no concept of leave no trace ethics and take a dump on bivy ledges for others to clean up, or those chop anchor bolts, or those who bolt routes that have great pro, but these actions in no way embody the whole of climbers in each discipline.
My advice to others is to gain a mutual respect for your fellow climbers. Maybe someone who boulders exclusively has never had the opportunity to try trad climbing and is intimidated by the complexity of the sport and the holier than thou attitude many purists seem to have. Maybe that old crusty trad climber is only pulling 5.4 because he/she wants to just be on the rock and enjoy the outdoors. We shouldn't pass judgement on others because we don't see eye to eye with them or enjoy the same aspect of the sport more than the others.
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tradmanclimbs
Aug 28, 2004, 11:52 PM
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Bouldering is fine. I just have issues with people who think they are really cool because they boulder. No matter how hard their problem is, it's still a really small rock. Xanax seems pretty cool and i have no doubt that he can pull way harder than me but I would still love to bring him up a big rock and open his mind to the experience of moving over stone a 1,000 feet off the deck.
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climber4life
Aug 29, 2004, 1:03 PM
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If you wanna lead, you lead.
If you wanna boulder, you boulder.
I do a bit of both but boulderings my fave.
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numbnut
Sep 1, 2004, 4:41 PM
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I wasn't aware that bouldering gets bashed so much. But I could think of a potential reason being because it is low commitment and relatively low risk. (Although I just fucked up my ankle bouldering) This makes it the most marketable and easily consumed type of climbing. A lot of climbers don't like that. They like the fact that learning how to lead climb, especially on trad gear takes a lot of time and commitment. Whereas getting better at bouldering is just about getting stronger. I am of the opinion that all of the climbing disciplines require such a different approach that they are all like individual sports. All of equal merit.
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dudeman
Oct 13, 2005, 1:25 AM
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People knock on it because it's popular, and because it's the "new" big thing.
When some cocky hardman with a keyboard sees a kid in Climbing or Rock & Ice getting more press than him for doing a "less demanding" form of climbing, he's bound to get jealous and shit-talk a little. Simple.
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gt29905
Oct 13, 2005, 1:59 AM
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Way to quote your Winston, I forwarded that to a half dozen people.
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drjghl
Oct 13, 2005, 2:35 AM
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I think there is only one legitimate reason to think less of a boulderer. And dsafanda states it very well. Bouldering is great. But imagine doing every sick boulder move exactly the same way but hundreds of feet off the deck. That is only one aspect that boulderers deny themselves. Too bad.
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eyeclimb
Oct 14, 2005, 4:28 PM
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Wow...I was going to add a lot of my thoughts to this topic, but xanx just said it all for me. So, I just wanted to say that I agree with you, xanx. Everyone needs to respect one another and it does not matter what type of climbing someone likes. Don't knock them for it because it's just a bad attitude to have. I am very partial to bouldering, but I don't walk around saying other types of climbing suck. All in all, no matter what type of climbing each and every climber likes, climbers are climbers in general and everyone should relax and not turn this into a sport where everyone argues and gets mad at each other, like all of the other ones that exist today.
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reg
Oct 14, 2005, 4:45 PM
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i did not read past the first page cause lots of good points were made there. i wll add that as a 56 year old n00b (2yrs of trad leads under the harness) i have no problem with "boulderers" or bouldering. do a little myself.
it is a jealous and sad sort that says negative things about others -whomever! and for whatever! man i'm glad i'm not that way (or at least try not to be).
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dingus
Oct 14, 2005, 4:47 PM
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Cause the little bitches get upset, why do you think???
DMT
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reg
Oct 14, 2005, 4:47 PM
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oh i forgot - 100 posts! yeah! :shock: 8^) and just for grins: :lol:
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jemco
Oct 16, 2005, 7:40 PM
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I'll only add a bit of ironic timing to this post. I just got the latest issue of Climbing magazine (at the Rifle Adopt a Crag clean up) and it is dedicated to Bouldering. The editorial will certainly draw lots of criticism from non boulderers as it claims bouldering is in fact the most important aspect of climbing--sort of "we all boulder somewhere in our climbing experience." That being said, I love to hear about boulderers being "loud, young and stupid"--ever been to Rifle? Loud, young, stupid. Smith? Loud, young, stupid Yosemite? Loud, young and stupid--The world is full of loud young stupid people who talk more than they climb, and talk WAY more than they think. I have met obnoxious people at the gunks, the red, the new, hueco, bishop, yosemite, rifle, smith, indian creek, little cottonwood, and on the list goes. Until all the obnoxious people start loving NASCAR I think our sport--in whatever discipline you like will get bashed as being full of obnoxious loud people.
jemco
p.s. there are some GREAT bouldering photos in this Climbing.
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napoleon_in_rags
Oct 16, 2005, 8:16 PM
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In reply to: Until all the obnoxious people start loving NASCAR I think our sport--in whatever discipline you like will get bashed as being full of obnoxious loud people. jemco
Actually I know plenty of obnoxious people who love Nascar.
Out of the many climbers I have met at the crags, online, the gym, bars, where ever, I have met only a few ones I would consider obnoxious. Most climbers I have met are pretty cool people no matter what their politics/ religion/ sexual preference/ ethnicity.
The only ones who annoy me are those who insist on a 4 hour drum circle in the middle of the night at either camp slime or Hidden Valley.
-Pete
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avalon420
Oct 16, 2005, 10:14 PM
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I dont hate them, i just enjoy seeing how many i can take out with ektra 'biners while taking a break before the 5th pitch.Its quite difficult, try it. :lol:
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m_kraut
Oct 16, 2005, 10:26 PM
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In reply to: Because courage earns respect, crimp strength doesn't
So it requires no courage to send a highball 30 some feet off the ground with a terrible landing and just a little pad to save your butt? And it takes courage to climb on the end of a rope 30 some feet off the ground and know you won't fall more than 10 or 15 feet? Someone please explain this to me...
I personally think that bouldering is a wonderful part of the sport, but on the other hand, so is route-climbing. They are just different sides of the same coin; both require balls and strength and an intense attitude to do at a high level. The only difference is that one is on a rope and the other is not. But I agree with rrrADAM when he says something along the lines of 'I hear more boulderers bash other types of climbing.' I've never been looked down on cause I boulder, but I have definately heard some boulderers at my local crag bashing other types of climbing.
In conclusion, Why can't we all just get along?!?!? :cry:
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coopershawk
Oct 16, 2005, 11:52 PM
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where do all these dickhead climbers climb at? I have yet to meet one climber (boulderer or otherwise) who I'd consider obnoxious. Granted I'm not as worldly as some here, but everyone I've met so far seems pretty laid back, generous with the toprope or a spot, etc. Who gives a shit anyways, it's all climbing and fun as hell.
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deserteaglle
Oct 17, 2005, 12:25 AM
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First off, I swear to god man, I came by bouldering honestly. Just starting out, already got other hobbies and expenses, and bouldering is the closest thing around here. So I'm thinkin', "All I need is some shoes and chalk. That's great, I can get some good workouts real cheap, and when I find a mentor, then I can go do what really appeals to me," which is just about anything high up (used to be real afraid of heights as a kid, I guess un-conciously I just want to prove something to myself). Anyway, I couldn't really at first see the point to bouldering until I tried it and then thought it was great, but since I don't know any climbers, I didn't know what type of people were into it, I just noticed a whole lot of references to beanies, and I so naively thought it was just some silly inside joke. Then this weekend I bought an Urban Climber mag. Holy shit!!!!! You mean boulderers are really mostly just college kids, and they do wear beanies in almost every friggin' picture they have in that damn thing?!?!?!?!
I was almost ashamed that I am a boulderer, even though it's only because I don't have a climbing buddy and I'm cheap. Being labeled cheap is so much better than having to answer "Oh I mostly boulder." and then hear: "You boulder?! Where's your beanie?" How can they want to fit the stereotype just so perfectly?
Well I sure as hell don't want to, so this weekend I went bouldering in my cowboy hat, and even though i was the only person at the spot, I like to think I made a statement to all other college age kids (notice I'm college age and not a college student, I love how that bothers my parents) that you don't have to look like a furry penis head to go bouldering, just be yourself. Unless you are a furry penis head then just copy me and get a cowboy hat. :lol:
On second thought, don't go get a cowboy hat, I like being the only whiteboy around here with a taco hat, and I don't want to start a trend here forcing me to change styles so I don't look like every other cowboyhat-wearing, dumbass kid boulderer. I'd have to do something extreme then, like wear a fez or something.
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musicman
Oct 17, 2005, 1:06 AM
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In reply to: however, i have respect for other types of climbing as well. i respect sport climbers for pulling absolutely disgustingly hard moves on lead and doing some of the sickest lines possible. i respect trad climbers for the balls to actually trust that tiny chunk of metal wedged into that micro with a big whipper. i respect ice climbers b/c i can see the purity in it and the beauty of it (plus the balls to trust a screw u put into the ice by hand to save ur life!). Aid climbers are just insane. A5 climbing sounds to me like a very good way to get a free trip home in a timber box. and, apparently, A5 climbers have to be veritable encyclopedias of technical knowledge. And then there are the "jack of all trades" alpine hardmen who do it all in mega-epics up the most formidable peaks. |
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glyrocks
Oct 17, 2005, 2:04 AM
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In reply to: where do all these dickhead climbers climb at?
I they're bouldering now.
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iscreamhedake
Oct 19, 2005, 3:39 AM
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man, i work with a guy and he calls boudlering "climbers A.D.D." we work in a gear store. and im always just like "eric, whats teh deal man?" but quite frankly i dont give a damn if people dont like boulderers. im more inclined to worry about people who know shit about rocks come out and get hurt at places weve worked hard to keep open. last may i held a kids crushed head in my lap while i waited for paramedics to get to the boulderfields in birmingham (moss rock preserve). so in your eyes we might be at the bottom of everyone elses list. but im at the top of mine. i dont care what i climb as long as i have fun doin it. its my source of discipline and thats all there is to it.
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dood
Oct 19, 2005, 4:45 AM
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I think you answered your own question:
"...young punks with big pillows who don't have the balls to lead."
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raistros
Nov 30, 2011, 8:27 AM
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In reply to: I think there's kind of a perception that boulderers are a little more cocky, more likely to be spraylords about what they're working, it's more of a competitve and social activity rather than being roped up climbing up a rock with your partner. I think it's cause it attracts a younger crowd with a lot more testosterone pumping than other forms of climbing. You don't often see someone 8 pitches up a trad climb with 5 friends looking on yelling "f*cking send it dude, send it!!!". Not that I personally think there's anything wrong with that, but bouldering is an activity that doesn't get far off the ground, thus more people are going to see and hear what you're doing if you're only 5 feet off the ground as opposed to being roped up 300 ft off the deck. And as in every crowd, a few loudmouthed obnoxious people can get an overall behaved crew a bad name. And please don't flame me for this observation, but I see more bragging and flame waring among boulderers on this site than any other area. You don't see aid climbers bashing back and forth about whether they used a hook or a leeper cam on a move, but you often see big time wars going on about what's a real V3 and how there's no way someone climbed a v8, etc. Just an observation.
I'm not convinced its bad or good, just different.
competition helps push people to their limits and do better, which i like
and simultaneously it turns some people off.
so i guess its preference.
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shockabuku
Nov 30, 2011, 1:51 PM
Post #198 of 215
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raistros wrote: In reply to: I think there's kind of a perception that boulderers are a little more cocky, more likely to be spraylords about what they're working, it's more of a competitve and social activity rather than being roped up climbing up a rock with your partner. I think it's cause it attracts a younger crowd with a lot more testosterone pumping than other forms of climbing. You don't often see someone 8 pitches up a trad climb with 5 friends looking on yelling "f*cking send it dude, send it!!!". Not that I personally think there's anything wrong with that, but bouldering is an activity that doesn't get far off the ground, thus more people are going to see and hear what you're doing if you're only 5 feet off the ground as opposed to being roped up 300 ft off the deck. And as in every crowd, a few loudmouthed obnoxious people can get an overall behaved crew a bad name. And please don't flame me for this observation, but I see more bragging and flame waring among boulderers on this site than any other area. You don't see aid climbers bashing back and forth about whether they used a hook or a leeper cam on a move, but you often see big time wars going on about what's a real V3 and how there's no way someone climbed a v8, etc. Just an observation. are u saying its inherently bad that its social and competitive? I'm not convinced its bad or good, just different. competition helps push people to their limits and do better, which i like and simultaneously it turns some people off. so i guess its preference.
Wow. You just replied to an 8 year old post by a poster that hasn't been on this site in over 2.5 years. I wonder if that's a record.
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cracklover
Nov 30, 2011, 2:11 PM
Post #199 of 215
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shockabuku wrote: raistros wrote: In reply to: I think there's kind of a perception that boulderers are a little more cocky, more likely to be spraylords about what they're working, it's more of a competitve and social activity rather than being roped up climbing up a rock with your partner. I think it's cause it attracts a younger crowd with a lot more testosterone pumping than other forms of climbing. You don't often see someone 8 pitches up a trad climb with 5 friends looking on yelling "f*cking send it dude, send it!!!". Not that I personally think there's anything wrong with that, but bouldering is an activity that doesn't get far off the ground, thus more people are going to see and hear what you're doing if you're only 5 feet off the ground as opposed to being roped up 300 ft off the deck. And as in every crowd, a few loudmouthed obnoxious people can get an overall behaved crew a bad name. And please don't flame me for this observation, but I see more bragging and flame waring among boulderers on this site than any other area. You don't see aid climbers bashing back and forth about whether they used a hook or a leeper cam on a move, but you often see big time wars going on about what's a real V3 and how there's no way someone climbed a v8, etc. Just an observation. are u saying its inherently bad that its social and competitive? I'm not convinced its bad or good, just different. competition helps push people to their limits and do better, which i like and simultaneously it turns some people off. so i guess its preference. Wow. You just replied to an 8 year old post by a poster that hasn't been on this site in over 2.5 years. I wonder if that's a record.
Not only that, but I think special recognition should go to this guy because A - it's his first post on RC.com, and B - he dredged up this ancient thread... to add absolutely no original thoughts. Basically his post can be summed up as "I dunno if it's bad or good. I guess it's personal preference."
Wow. Been saving up your first post for that?
GO
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SylviaSmile
Nov 30, 2011, 6:37 PM
Post #200 of 215
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cracklover wrote: shockabuku wrote: raistros wrote: In reply to: I think there's kind of a perception that boulderers are a little more cocky, more likely to be spraylords about what they're working, it's more of a competitve and social activity rather than being roped up climbing up a rock with your partner. I think it's cause it attracts a younger crowd with a lot more testosterone pumping than other forms of climbing. You don't often see someone 8 pitches up a trad climb with 5 friends looking on yelling "f*cking send it dude, send it!!!". Not that I personally think there's anything wrong with that, but bouldering is an activity that doesn't get far off the ground, thus more people are going to see and hear what you're doing if you're only 5 feet off the ground as opposed to being roped up 300 ft off the deck. And as in every crowd, a few loudmouthed obnoxious people can get an overall behaved crew a bad name. And please don't flame me for this observation, but I see more bragging and flame waring among boulderers on this site than any other area. You don't see aid climbers bashing back and forth about whether they used a hook or a leeper cam on a move, but you often see big time wars going on about what's a real V3 and how there's no way someone climbed a v8, etc. Just an observation. are u saying its inherently bad that its social and competitive? I'm not convinced its bad or good, just different. competition helps push people to their limits and do better, which i like and simultaneously it turns some people off. so i guess its preference. Wow. You just replied to an 8 year old post by a poster that hasn't been on this site in over 2.5 years. I wonder if that's a record. Not only that, but I think special recognition should go to this guy because A - it's his first post on RC.com, and B - he dredged up this ancient thread... to add absolutely no original thoughts. Basically his post can be summed up as "I dunno if it's bad or good. I guess it's personal preference." Wow. Been saving up your first post for that? GO
Heehee, you just can't win here. I mean, he could have started a new topic wondering why people bash bouldering, and gotten slammed for not doing a search. I say, good job resurrecting the old post. Maybe it IS personal preference! Maybe competition is bad . . . maybe bouldering is bad? Who knows, but clearly people are still talking about it.
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sungam
Nov 30, 2011, 7:15 PM
Post #201 of 215
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shockabuku wrote: I wonder if that's a record.
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cracklover
Nov 30, 2011, 9:30 PM
Post #202 of 215
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SylviaSmile wrote: cracklover wrote: shockabuku wrote: raistros wrote: In reply to: I think there's kind of a perception that boulderers are a little more cocky, more likely to be spraylords about what they're working, it's more of a competitve and social activity rather than being roped up climbing up a rock with your partner. I think it's cause it attracts a younger crowd with a lot more testosterone pumping than other forms of climbing. You don't often see someone 8 pitches up a trad climb with 5 friends looking on yelling "f*cking send it dude, send it!!!". Not that I personally think there's anything wrong with that, but bouldering is an activity that doesn't get far off the ground, thus more people are going to see and hear what you're doing if you're only 5 feet off the ground as opposed to being roped up 300 ft off the deck. And as in every crowd, a few loudmouthed obnoxious people can get an overall behaved crew a bad name. And please don't flame me for this observation, but I see more bragging and flame waring among boulderers on this site than any other area. You don't see aid climbers bashing back and forth about whether they used a hook or a leeper cam on a move, but you often see big time wars going on about what's a real V3 and how there's no way someone climbed a v8, etc. Just an observation. are u saying its inherently bad that its social and competitive? I'm not convinced its bad or good, just different. competition helps push people to their limits and do better, which i like and simultaneously it turns some people off. so i guess its preference. Wow. You just replied to an 8 year old post by a poster that hasn't been on this site in over 2.5 years. I wonder if that's a record. Not only that, but I think special recognition should go to this guy because A - it's his first post on RC.com, and B - he dredged up this ancient thread... to add absolutely no original thoughts. Basically his post can be summed up as "I dunno if it's bad or good. I guess it's personal preference." Wow. Been saving up your first post for that? GO Heehee, you just can't win here. I mean, he could have started a new topic wondering why people bash bouldering, and gotten slammed for not doing a search. I say, good job resurrecting the old post. Maybe it IS personal preference! Maybe competition is bad . . . maybe bouldering is bad? Who knows, but clearly people are still talking about it.
Um... when having a conversation, do you reply to people who left the room ten minutes ago? Do you get confused when those people, who aren't there to hear you, don't reply?
Bringing a dead conversation back to life when most of the people are long gone is the same thing.
The exception is when someone has a really important point or new situation to add. The above post, not so much.
Cheers,
GO
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RockLowe
Nov 30, 2011, 11:56 PM
Post #203 of 215
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I boulder, but still lead too and i think that if you bash bouldering, you're the kind of guy that would top-rope a flight of stairs
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flesh
Dec 1, 2011, 11:51 PM
Post #204 of 215
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To the OP, anyone who doesn't think bouldering is climbing is silly. I've done difficult single pitch and multi pitch trad, sport, not aid but I've belayed c4 aid (which was scary) and now I mostly boulder.
Everyone's ego gets mixed up in all this mumbo jumbo.... it took me fifteen years to figure out that the best way for me to improve is to compete against myself.
It's not going anywhere, if it's not obvious it's growing you're crazy.
It also depends on where you live, 10 years ago, here in utah, bouldering was primarily considered training for routes, only a select few bouldered exclusively. Now, it's very common for the best up and coming climbers in the area to spend most of their climbing bouldering and it's certainly respected by everyeone else. In time, this will be normal.
I was just in font for 3 weeks, the climbers there can't imagine why they would rope up when they have the best bouldering in the world at their doorstep. If they want something longer, they do one of the many classic traverses.
It's mostly a generational thing.
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gwell
Feb 8, 2013, 10:29 PM
Post #206 of 215
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I don't get people who don't appreciate bouldering either! It's fun, a challenge and appealing for beginners as well. I filmed this video with a couple of friends in England and although being not very advanced, it's still a hell of a lot of fun ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Plc3U1UgLU
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Ruff_Dog
Apr 5, 2013, 8:41 PM
Post #207 of 215
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I agree with this. I mean, for beginners especially, it helps get over that fear of falling/hitting the ground/letting go, because at first, not many of us can trust our gear. We're all tentatively like slowly letting go. And for those that never had that fear, I think you're crazy. But with bouldering, it's helped me get over the letting go because the mat is there.. but that's just me. You all may be different.
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ertbrandon
Apr 19, 2013, 4:40 PM
Post #208 of 215
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I don't like the fact that people even try to separate climbers into categories because we are all essentially doing the same thing... Climbing. I find it crazy too, (maybe i've caught the bug more than other people) that people say "I Boulder" and dont lead or climb trad. The nature of the sport is to push yourself both physically and mentally and to stick to one type of climbing and labeling yourself as something so specific is what sets up this ridiculous dynamic in the first place. Find all types of climbing just as satisfying as the next (though for different reasons) and one type is not necessarily better than the other it just depends on your mood. So screw the distinctions.... We are all just climbers.
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scouter
May 15, 2013, 12:58 AM
Post #209 of 215
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I think all climbers are different and we all share a common interest (climbing) whether it is bouldering or traditional or sport etc... Just climb the way you like to and as long as youre enjoying yourself, why the hell does it matter? To be honest no one has mentioned free soloing. Atleast from what I have read so far. People who free solo are crazy in my opinion but they probably get bashed the most. I don't believe that boulderers are lazy... Purely because I know plenty people who boulder and are most certainly not lazy. This wouldnt be such a big deal if everyone could shut the fuck up about who is better.
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AdGrenoble
Oct 11, 2013, 11:10 AM
Post #210 of 215
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There is no better sign of low self-esteem than the need to belittle others.
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ej
Oct 11, 2013, 12:59 PM
Post #211 of 215
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Because we overweight older climbers can't get up a V3.
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bigbear11
Oct 22, 2013, 3:06 PM
Post #212 of 215
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Ruff_Dog wrote: I agree with this. I mean, for beginners especially, it helps get over that fear of falling/hitting the ground/letting go, because at first, not many of us can trust our gear. We're all tentatively like slowly letting go. And for those that never had that fear, I think you're crazy. But with bouldering, it's helped me get over the letting go because the mat is there.. but that's just me. You all may be different.
I think it might be the other way around for me. I don't trust the little crash pad, if I even have one that is. Especially when I high ball. If there is a difficult move high up that sets me up for a potential bad fall, I won't try and make it unless everything feels right. This means lots of climbing back down. Same move roped up and I am throwing for it every time.
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5.samadhi
Oct 24, 2013, 8:57 PM
Post #213 of 215
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bigbear11 wrote: Ruff_Dog wrote: I agree with this. I mean, for beginners especially, it helps get over that fear of falling/hitting the ground/letting go, because at first, not many of us can trust our gear. We're all tentatively like slowly letting go. And for those that never had that fear, I think you're crazy. But with bouldering, it's helped me get over the letting go because the mat is there.. but that's just me. You all may be different. I think it might be the other way around for me. I don't trust the little crash pad, if I even have one that is. Especially when I high ball. If there is a difficult move high up that sets me up for a potential bad fall, I won't try and make it unless everything feels right. This means lots of climbing back down. Same move roped up and I am throwing for it every time.
bouldering is A-O-K 
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shotwell
Oct 27, 2013, 1:15 AM
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5.samadhi wrote: bigbear11 wrote: Ruff_Dog wrote: I agree with this. I mean, for beginners especially, it helps get over that fear of falling/hitting the ground/letting go, because at first, not many of us can trust our gear. We're all tentatively like slowly letting go. And for those that never had that fear, I think you're crazy. But with bouldering, it's helped me get over the letting go because the mat is there.. but that's just me. You all may be different. I think it might be the other way around for me. I don't trust the little crash pad, if I even have one that is. Especially when I high ball. If there is a difficult move high up that sets me up for a potential bad fall, I won't try and make it unless everything feels right. This means lots of climbing back down. Same move roped up and I am throwing for it every time. well sure, but you can huck a lowball boulder problem over and over and work on moves that usually would be on routes that are WAY over your head. If you're a 5.11 climber you're not going to be getting on 5.14s to test your limit power for single moves...but you might find the equivalent crux on a lowball and project it as a boulder problem... bouldering is A-O-K
I highly doubt many 5.11 climbers are making any sort of progress on ~v10 movements. If they are, they probably need to reassess why they climb so poorly on a rope.
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5.samadhi
Oct 27, 2013, 1:17 AM
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shotwell wrote: 5.samadhi wrote: bigbear11 wrote: Ruff_Dog wrote: I agree with this. I mean, for beginners especially, it helps get over that fear of falling/hitting the ground/letting go, because at first, not many of us can trust our gear. We're all tentatively like slowly letting go. And for those that never had that fear, I think you're crazy. But with bouldering, it's helped me get over the letting go because the mat is there.. but that's just me. You all may be different. I think it might be the other way around for me. I don't trust the little crash pad, if I even have one that is. Especially when I high ball. If there is a difficult move high up that sets me up for a potential bad fall, I won't try and make it unless everything feels right. This means lots of climbing back down. Same move roped up and I am throwing for it every time. well sure, but you can huck a lowball boulder problem over and over and work on moves that usually would be on routes that are WAY over your head. If you're a 5.11 climber you're not going to be getting on 5.14s to test your limit power for single moves...but you might find the equivalent crux on a lowball and project it as a boulder problem... bouldering is A-O-K I highly doubt many 5.11 climbers are making any sort of progress on ~v10 movements. If they are, they probably need to reassess why they climb so poorly on a rope.
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