Not true, mine's pinkish purple and it's really cool.

I disagree--I've been climbing for 40 years and have owned just about every rope on the market and I think you are wrong. Different ropes handle differently, hold knots differently, wear out differently and kink up differently (you obviously never owned an Esprit Rope from Canada!!)

And, yes, Mammut is my favorite rope.

I do like lighter ropes, don't care about handling. I just buy whatever not too big and on sale at REI.

Love my 10.5.

i currently have two bluewaters' - an 11mm (older model) for TR & stump pullin and a 10.5 accelerator. they couldn't be any more different. the 11 ties like a sassafrass root while the 10.5 is noodly and sinches tight.

I believe all of that is superficial and immaterial.

When I started climbing I used a 9mm Static rope rated at 244 pounds that I paid $9 and change for at Home Depot. Still breathing.

I think there are substantial differences between brands in regard to durability, and I don't think durability is superficial. You're a nutcase.

Excellent point. My favorite rope is purple with pink flecks. However, my post was about rope performance.

Heh.

It's true. I've been climbing for 6 years now, just enough to spout off about my ignorance.

And what I have discovered is that all ropes are THE SAME.

There are only a couple differences. bi-color, diameter and length. Oh yeah, and dry.

What I'm saying is that brand doesn't matter. # of falls doesn't matter. Impact force is a # made up by the travelocity roaming Gnome, denouncer of travel myths. I don't want to hear about elongation, because they all stretch. If they're skinny, they stretch more.

People have their favorite brands. Mammut seems to be the most common favorite brand. It also seems to be the most expensive. Big surprise! I've used mammuts. Nothing special!

I've currently got 4 ropes in active duty, and they're all the same. Sure, I have a favorite, but it's cause its pretty. and skinny. And light. And I climbed with it in Thailand, got some fond memories. But it isn't better than any of my other ropes.

People talk about the 'hand' of a rope. Personally, I couldn't care less. I've used stiff ropes. I've used noodle ropes. My favorites are somewhere in between these extremes, but really I don't care.

I've heard it claimed that some ropes twist easier than other ropes. This is more bullshit. You rigged an anchor wrong, deal with it. I've done it and jacked some ropes. It's fixable.

Anyway, that is my conclusion after years of emprical study and anecdotal research. I buy the cheapest ropes I can find. A good belay is the important thing.

I think the body of your post contradicts your subject line. You talk about a number of differences in your post: price, color, length, diameter, elongation, dry, 'hand'. You say that some of these differences are important to you (you like a particular rope because of its diameter, weight, and appearance).

So what's the real point? Other than our apparent shared boredom.

I feel now is a good time to point out this thread: http://www.rockclimbing.com/...=1678065;page=unread

Obviously this can be the only exception. There's no way there could be another. No way.

«There are only a couple differences. bi-color, diameter and length. Oh yeah, and dry.»

My take: after a few days of crag use with either rappelling or lowering, there's little difference between dry ropes and untreated ropes. About 10 years ago, I weighed 2 ropes, which were identical except for the dry treatment, when they were dry. Then I placed them in the bathtub for 15 minutes. They both gained exactly the same weight.

This confirmed my obvservation that outdoors they both got just as wet if it rained.

Cheers, r.c

If you, personally, don't discern about handling, stiffness, durability and the like, then of course it's all irrelevant.

I see it like biners, nuts, cams, whatever. If it is different, it will feel different at first. But it takes very little time to adjust to the difference and proceed. Any percieved advantages of one over another don't come into play with ropes because they wear out so much faster than the above mentioned gear.

OK, now you've crossed the line. There are more than "perceived advantages" to certain 'biners, nuts and cams. Climbing on Aliens, for instance, will put hair on your chest, while trying to locate HB Offsets will cause you to pull your hair out. (I, for one, am one patchy-haired mofo.)

I've been climbing for 6 years now, just enough to spout off about my ignorance.

What's that? You climb Cali granite and don't have the H Beez? Man, that is sad!

Get back to us in a decade when you have some real experience...you'll be singing a different tune for sure.

That's funny. A number of climbers with 10 and 15 years plus experience have already said it isn't a huge deal.

Some have the same opinion as yourself as well. But hell, so do a lot of n00bs.

My favorite part of all of it is that no one can ever tell you WHY rope A is better than rope B. Or, if they do, someone else will chime in and say B is better than A.

I’m still upset I’m not in that bomb. With all the effort I’ve put in helping to plot your demise I would have thought I’d earned a place on the list.

So you're saying that Mammut is better?

Of course they all behave differently but the bottom line is they all catch you in a fall so while you may prefer one rope how much extra money is that prefrence worth to you? Would you compromise a bit of handleing for better price knowing that both ropes are totally safe? For me the cut off point is about $20.00 and then ONLY if the better rope is AMAZEING. So if i can get a 10.0 to 10.3 rope on sale for under $120.00 that is the rope that i will buy. If the only rope in that price range is the Edelweis 10.3 then i may be talked into spewnding and extra 10 or maby even $20.00 to get ANY other rope as i am familiar with how stiff that sucker is. Bottom line though is that I will NOT spend $150 or higher on a single rope if I can help it.

Absolutely....I keep buying dri ropes while I NEVER climbed in the rain...go figure, my point was that at the same amount of use the mammut and the Sterling had completely different outcomes. I can still climb with the older Sterling, while the mammut (overall in better shape, but too stiff) is in the garage...

just my 2c

You mean you have discovered that the fattest rope you own is also the most difficult to feed through a grigri?? A scientific breakthrough!!

My favorite part of all of it is that no one can ever tell you WHY rope A is better than rope B. Or, if they do, someone else will chime in and say B is better than A.

A noob asking the wrong questions to the wrong people is always going to get bad answers. Try asking intelligent questions to knowledgeable climbers and you'll learn something. Or just keep making a fool of yourself with dumb proclamations, your choice.

You mean you have discovered that the fattest rope you own is also the most difficult to feed through a grigri?? A scientific breakthrough!!

Jung, yes some of the pricy dry tratments are better but that is a non issue for a cragging rope. cragging implys single or half pitch. If it rains we rap and go home.
Cragging rope = cheapest rope available or model of prefrence not more than $20 above cheapest price available.
Ice/alpine = cheapest super dry in your targeted weight and diameter range.

I believe all of that is superficial and immaterial.

Jung, yes some of the pricy dry tratments are better but that is a non issue for a cragging rope. cragging implys single or half pitch. If it rains we rap and go home.
Cragging rope = cheapest rope available or model of prefrence not more than $20 above cheapest price available.
Ice/alpine = cheapest super dry in your targeted weight and diameter range.

Sorry. It seemed mostly like a zeke-art conspiracy, which snoop then joined. You didn't start threatening to kill me until more recently.

H Beez? ...no.

« I know the age old argument that all dry treatments wear out so quickly that they might as well all be the same. But nowadays there are differences in dry treatment types to make that argument outdated. Some companies still only apply a coating to the sheath, which is meant to seal the rope from water (this is the old style dry treatment). Others have stepped up to newer methods, like treating individual sheath yarns or treating individual core yarns -- which is vastly superior and doesn't wear out quickly at all. Some tests show that wet ropes can lose up to 70% of their dynamic resistance, and that ropes with treated core yarn resist that effect pretty well. Is that insignificant, too?»

J-ung: do you have any references to these tests? Have they been done on ropes that have had at least a week of climbing on them? Have they been done independently or by the manufacturer trying to sell a dry-treatment? What’s the loss in strength of a dry-treated rope after it’s been exposed to water? Different than that of a comparable untreated rope?

Cheers,
Rob.calm

The presence of water or ice in climbing ropes produces important modifications in their performance, such as:
1. The dynamic resistance of the ropes (i.e. the number of falls held on the Dodero) decreases enormously - down to 30 % of the initial value - when they are soaked with water, be they new or used, normal or waterproofed.

2. After soaking in water a rope becomes 4-5% longer, which can be correlated to the 5-10% increase of the impact force at the first fall on the Dodero machine.

3. The negative effects of water on the dynamic performance of ropes are remarkable even in case of a brief soaking time, even after being splashed under a shower.

4. This behaviour seems to be due to the interaction of water with the crystal structure of the nylon macromolecule (according to literature).

5. Such behaviour lasts as long as the rope is wet, but after drying - in a cool, airy and shady place, as recommended - the rope recovers almost completely its original dynamic performance, even after various soaking/drying cycles.

6. Depending on the drying grade (normal or thorough) the rope can become shorter by 4% to 8%, which seems to be correlated to the decrease by 6-12% of the impact force at the first fall on the Dodero machine.

7. Even in the case of soaked and frozen ropes the dynamic resistance decreases, but less than in wet ropes.

8. Relationship between residual strength and rope diameter: see Appendix 1

In conclusion, a used rope in good conditions, say a rope which can still hold 4-5 falls in the UIAA test on the Dodero machine when dry, might only hold 1 or 2 falls when soaked after a sudden rain fall, as often occurs in the mountains. This may not be too much of a serious problem when climbing in a Kletter-garten, where falls are usually less dangerous and it takes little time to pull the rope down and go home. But mountaineers must demand the maximum security from their rope, even when wet, since it might snap on a rough edge during a fall. This risk is lower when the rope is in good condition. The problem can be less critical when climbing a glacier or an ice-fall, because the ropes are frozen, but even in this case the temperature is very important: if it is goes over 0_C, the rope returns to being wet!

In conclusion, it would be a good idea to change our ropes more often!

LMAO, how sad.

Every had to yank a stiff 11 mm rope through an auto block? It sucks if yoy haven't...

Try it with a 9.1 Joker, and after 14 pitches, your arms will make it clear.

Try using those skinny ropes with a Gri Gri?
I witnessed a belayer struggle to achieve the necessary friction with just such a set up, who was rewarded with a broken neck, and his climber a broken heel.

Typically, you get what you pay for.

My rope gets me women, your rope gets you Zack. To me the difference is huge, to you probably not so much.

Your rope gets you chicks???

Finally someone I think I might be able to learn something from.

Yeah, I'm stuck with old zeke in the meantime.

Dave, I love you (in the I've-never-actually-met-you-except-online, non-romantic way). But you keep ignoring peoples' points here. Slabby just gave you an example of how two ropes' characteristics led to conditions that are different enough that he refuses to use one of them and always picks the other. That seems significant to me.

Here's another difference: dry treatments. Yeah, yeah, I know the age old argument that all dry treatments wear out so quickly that they might as well all be the same. But nowadays there are differences in dry treatment types to make that argument outdated. Some companies still only apply a coating to the sheath, which is meant to seal the rope from water (this is the old style dry treatment). Others have stepped up to newer methods, like treating individual sheath yarns or treating individual core yarns -- which is vastly superior and doesn't wear out quickly at all. Some tests show that wet ropes can lose up to 70% of their dynamic resistance, and that ropes with treated core yarn resist that effect pretty well. Is that insignificant, too?

Even the people who agree with you (including you!) are citing exceptions left and right, all while holding fast to the "all ropes are the same" claim. Okay, so I guess I'll join you... all ropes are the same, except when they're not.

Several edits for clarity and additions.

Troll of the Year Award!

I think though that a post "all cams are the same!" would get even more vitriol going...

congrats, caughtinside, you've done masterful work here!

My favorites are somewhere in between these extremes, but really I don't care.

I just want to point out that having a favorite and not caring is a contradiction. Having a favorite means that you do care. But that's a digression.

So, how am I or anyone else for that matter, supposed to make an INFORMED decision when buying a rope? You don't get to test them out. They all feel more or less the same to me when their in the factory coil. So, like most people, I choose based on price, diameter and weight. Why would I pay $50 more for a rope that is comparable on those characteristics?

Dude yer a moron! You just described a couple unfortunate incidents that are clearly n00b error in choosing the wrong tool (in terms of diameter or belay device) for the job! Who is retarded enough to drag an 11mil rope up a long route? Who is the jackass who can't belay with a skinny rope and puts their partner in danger? Both situations you describe can't be blamed on the rope.

heh heh, thanks dude. But, like all good trolls, it's got a large kernel of truth in it.

BTW, got my 30L v1, LOVE IT! That pack is bad ass! I would never say all packs are the same.

Now climbing shoes on the other hand, all the same. THey're all just leather and rubber, right?

I agree, climbing shoes are all the same.

It's the Climber not the shoe.

Sure... if you completely discount the importance of fit and terrain-appropriate lasts.

texas, your missing the point.. Putting asside matching the right belay divise to the proper rope diameter. What is more important to you given the same rope diamater and length. Brand name or price?

Refresh my memory, FOOL! Didn't you start this with the asserrtion that all ropes are the same?

Sitiuations cited, were done so, as to point out how ropes are not all the same. While not the fault of the rope, a different rope could have lessened if not avoided the situations.


I don't know why I even bothered to write this reply. It is probalby outside of your range of understanding. Besides, mom told me that you just can't argue with STUPID!

imho, though, some ropes are definitely better than others. i've owned several brands, several models of those brands, and i definitely have a favorite- so much so that future rope purchases will be dictated by that favorite.

I've lead an 11b sport route (completely wired) in approach shoes.
It's the climber not the shoe.

Can you make the same claim onsighting? I also wear approach shoes on well-wired warm ups, but it's the well-wired part that negates at least some of the claim, IMO.

Can we at least agree that all chalk bags are the same?

i saw a chalk bag at a gym once of a stuffed bunny's head he took a old chalk bag, cut the lining out and sewed it into the bunny's head he cut a little hole in part of the ear to hold the brush but the funniest (perhaps most disturbing) was he took red dye and dyed the fur around the neck where he cut the head from the rest of the toy.

no, this one is the coolest:

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...i?post=906095#906095

So, how am I or anyone else for that matter, supposed to make an INFORMED decision when buying a rope? You don't get to test them out. They all feel more or less the same to me when their in the factory coil. So, like most people, I choose based on price, diameter and weight. Why would I pay $50 more for a rope that is comparable on those characteristics?

Can we at least agree that all chalk bags are the same?

this is why jay is my rope reviewer....a job he wont lose anytime soon!

Can we at least agree that all chalk bags are the same?

Yeah, I did tease slabby about that mammut. But again, my point. What does his story tell us? That he got one bad mammut? That he got a mammut HE didn't like? Just up thread, potreroed says he's been climbing 40 years, and his FAVORITE ropes are mammut! (and I will go a little further and say that he likely belays with a grigri in the potrero)

It always seems like the noodly ropes get tangled more easily.

FWIW I bought my rope cause it was in a box with a sale sign on it. I think no one bought them cause they were purple and pink. Guys are dumb.

I think the body of your post contradicts your subject line.

Edelrid wire, 9.8 mm X 70 mt

Jay, i totaly agree that all ropes are different but my point is how much money is the difference worth to you provideing the fact that all ropes are safe enough for standard cragging aplications be it sport or trad.

A quick browse through the rope section @ gearexpress.com shows the options for 60m single ropes.

Beal 10.2 dry $177.50 OS* (*out of stock)
Blue water 10.5 Standard $174.00
Edelweis 10.3 dry $119.95
Maxim 10.5dry $154.95 *os
Sterling 9.8 & 10.1 standard $149.95

According to my criteria the beal and bluewater are eliminated outright due to high price...

Can we at least agree that all chalk bags are the same?

They really have a rope called the "Wire?" What's next, the "Cable?"

Jay

I've onsighted 5.10 trad in approach shoes.

Art you are absolutely right. I climb in my approach shoes all the time. Sometimes I find they even climb better than my real climbing shoes. They are super comfy on long routes too. It does really piss people off though when you burn them off on a route in your approach shoes that they can't do in their climbing shoes.

Can we at least agree that all chalk bags are the same?