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longdraws
Nov 20, 2007, 10:07 PM
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yesterday (11/19/07) i witnessed a ground fall on intersection rock; left ski track, J-tree. the climber was only 8 ft or so off the ground and only two ft or so past his first placement. the climber fell and then the cam popped out of the crack. myself and a few of his friends/family came up to find the climber a bit scratched but for the most part unharmed.
the omega link cam 1 that he had placed had broken on the red first cam.
the climbers were video taping so i hope they will send the footage and the cam to omega for further investigation.
i don't know if it was placement error or cam failure. i was wondering if anyone else has heard about the link cams having issues.
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shoo
Nov 20, 2007, 10:37 PM
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http://www.omegapac.com/...limbing_notices.html
Check that to see if it sounds familiar.
You're also going to have to be specific about the breakage. Did the rivet binding them break or did the cam lobe itself break? More importantly, do you have pictures? If you know the climber, it's important that he/she report the breakage immediately.
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trenchdigger
Nov 20, 2007, 10:47 PM
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Hmmm... haven't heard anything about them breaking other than some issues with the trigger wires.
I really don't think I'd want to place a link cam in the flaring, slick pods at the bottom of left ski track. The steel inner lobes of the link cam wouldn't likely generate as much friction as an aluminum lobe in the same orientation. Additionally, the lean of the crack leads me to believe a more flexible cam would be less likely to torque out of the crack, and the roundness of the pods suggest a cam with a narrower head may fit the crack better.
The question is, then, did the cam's structural failure cause the placement to fail? Or did a bad placement pulling cause the damage to the cam?
I wasn't there and I didn't see the placement, so your guess is as good as mine. It would be interesting to see the video and some photos of the damaged cam.
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longdraws
Nov 20, 2007, 11:11 PM
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the break happened along the drawn line. i don't know the climbers as i just happened to stop by to look at the route.
(This post was edited by longdraws on Nov 20, 2007, 11:12 PM)
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the_climber
Nov 20, 2007, 11:27 PM
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I've PM'd Michael Lane of OP with a link to this thread. He hasn't logged on since Early October, but should get the e-mail notification. He's typically prompt to respond.
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davidbr
Nov 23, 2007, 3:58 PM
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Anyone got a story about whipping onto a Link that has a happy ending?
I've had mine two seasons, and actually like them a lot. Have sat on them plenty of times, but only whipped once. The cam didn't break, but the placement didn't hold. The placement was on the outer lobe, but in a well-retracted position - nowhere near being tipped out. The crack was parallel. The rock was solid but limestone, and without a ton of friction.
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dirtme
Nov 25, 2007, 7:25 AM
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Hey, I was on Intersection Rock that day too and saw the exact same thing. I wish I had your angle on it because it hurt from where I was sitting, staring at the route on my ass. Other then my pride being bruised and getting a lashing from my wife for climbing routes while I was out of climbing shape, no harm was done. Well, no harm was done other then the cam of course. I'll take pictures when I can. I'm waiting for my buddy to send me the photo of the actual placement. It was in a pin flare like pod with 4 points of contact. The cam before the fall was in a downward position, in the direction of the fall. The cam failed at one of the thin connections between the cams. Anyway, I've removed them off my rack and climbed a few more days. I think I'll stick with my camelots with the solid cam heads.
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longdraws
Nov 25, 2007, 6:24 PM
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good to hear that you were all right! and you still got some climbing in!
definitely put some pics on here and send that back to omega for some evaluation.
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dirtme
Nov 25, 2007, 6:48 PM
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Here are two pics. Notice it snapped right by the peg? There was no warping of the lobes, it just snapped off at that point.
My friends are still in J-Tree so I won't get any pictures of the actual placement. Once I get everything together and an OP contact, I'll send the stuff in.
I wasn't actually going to post about this because I didn't want to start a flame war but I did a search on cam failure and found this thread.
Just want to add that I'm fairly experienced, 10+ years of climbing, and have led 5.11 trad routes, and predominately climb in the Sierras and Yosemite. This is probably my 6-7th trip to J-Tree. I'm currently not in the best of climbing shape and have only been climbing in the gym for the past 4-5 months due to a birth of a child. I'm not a noob and I'm also trying not to blame anyone or any company. Shit happens. I could have put another piece in as a backup so the deck was preventable. Everything I say is just what I experienced, nothing more. 
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JohnCook
Nov 25, 2007, 7:39 PM
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Needs to be returned quickly to the manufacturer. It is difficult to see from the pictures, but looks like brittle fracture initiated by a material defect/inclusion.
Return it for immediate envestigation!
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giza
Nov 25, 2007, 8:54 PM
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This is nothing new with these cams. We have been through three of them: two of them had issues with the trigger wires and on one of them we noticed that one of the lobes was fractured after one year of light use. I think they're great cams but OP seems to have some problems with quality control.
To be fair, the cams we were using were the first generation with the 'clip on' trigger wires. On the newer version cams this system has been replaced but the fractured cam lobe raises questions about their safety.
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nivlac
Nov 25, 2007, 9:35 PM
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giza wrote: This is nothing new with these cams. We have been through three of them: two of them had issues with the trigger wires and on one of them we noticed that one of the lobes was fractured after one year of light use. I think they're great cams but OP seems to have some problems with quality control. To be fair, the cams we were using were the first generation with the 'clip on' trigger wires. On the newer version cams this system has been replaced but the fractured cam lobe raises questions about their safety.
That's an understatement. I'd say the earlier problems raised safety questions about OP cams; not good to see, but fixable. Unless otherwise explained, this looks like outright evidence of unsafe workmanship or severe quality control/design issues that really need visiting by OP if they want continued confidence in their gear.
OP, hoping for a quick reply here or on your website. I own OP linkcams.
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longdraws
Nov 25, 2007, 10:38 PM
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thanks for putting up the pics. it seems like this is an issue that needs to be addressed very soon
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JohnCook
Nov 25, 2007, 11:02 PM
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Hope the manufacturers read this post. From the number on this site alone who have had probs with breaking lobes it warrants some investigation. Prob could be with forge/press operation at early stage of production, and defects not being picked up during subsequent inspection. Any fault, whether with material quality or manufacturing process, will only get worse with use. A slight micro crack (caused by too rapid pressin/forging etc), or stress concentration point (sharp based groove/cut/scatch in part) or inclusion (foreign matter trapped inside material), will propagate, brittleness will increase the speed of this propagation, stress loading will encrease speed of propagation, rapid variations in temperature will increase speed of prop. etc etc etc.
Most cracks in gear can be spotted by very carefull examination of parts, especially where a load may be applied to it, eg. near pivot point on cams, in curve at end of crabs. Deep scratches should be treated as cracks. Smooth wear can, if not deep and showing no sign of over heating (blueing on surface or crazing) usually be ignored. In the ideal world all metal parts shound be highly polished to reduce stress concentrating scratches, however small. (A stress concentration point is a groove which allows any stress to concentrate, like the mark in glass cutting, or making a small nick in a metal bar, piece of wood etc. which will then break much easier.
I now feel better for this little lecture, and I hope it helps when you next inspect your gear.
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bent_gate
Nov 25, 2007, 11:16 PM
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First, Whew! I'm glad you're alright.
I don't know if you inspected your cams per the Omega Pacific Inspection Notice (or were even aware of it), but one of their pictures has a resemblance to where your cam broke around the pin.
From OP Inspection Notice http://www.omegapac.com/...limbing_notices.html
OP Inspection Notice wrote: ...During the course of the inspection, we subsequently discovered three units which have a small fissure in the steel linkage of the cam lobes.  As unlikely as it sounds, destruct-testing of these units revealed that the defect does NOT reduce the overall strength of the units. In fact, the units we tested failed ABOVE rating. However, since the goods, obviously, do not conform to our specifications, we would like any units with this defect returned for replacement under warranty.
For comparison, your pictures:
In the short term, it would be worthwhile for others check their cams per that inspection notice as well.
If you look at the original thread that prompted the Inspection Notice http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25; Michael Lane at OP was very responsive with his responses. Per his posts you should contact:
In reply to: Michael Lane Sales & Marketing Director info@omegapac.com 800.360.3990 toll-free 509.456.0170 international
As soon as possible. I'm sure he would appreciate the chance to take positive action.
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medicus
Nov 25, 2007, 11:44 PM
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wow...
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ja1484
Nov 26, 2007, 12:20 AM
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This is why I hung back on these things for a while. The more moving parts you add...
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dirtme
Nov 26, 2007, 12:27 AM
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Here's another photo that gives you a closeup of where it snapped.
Also I just reread a few of the posts. I wouldn't say the pods are slick. They might be for J-Tree but not by Yosemite standards. Also, my wife thinks it's closer to 15 feet up.
I also emailed Michael at work to ask whether he'd like more information or if he wants the cam.
(This post was edited by dirtme on Nov 26, 2007, 12:32 AM)
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medicus
Nov 26, 2007, 2:10 AM
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ja1484 wrote: This is why I hung back on these things for a while. The more moving parts you add...
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michaellane
Nov 26, 2007, 5:27 PM
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Hi, Everyone ...
Sorry for coming in late ... I just found this thread. For some reason, I'm not getting email notification when I get PM'd ... so please don't rely on that to contact me going forward. Didn't receive dirtme's email, either for some reason.
Nevertheless, I've PM'd dirtme in an attempt to get some more background and get the cam back for inspection.
We are, of course, extremely glad that nobody's hurt and appreciate everyone's concern. We take reports like this very seriously and will conduct a thorough investigation into it.
As you know, there was an inspection notice regarding Link Cams and this incident may or may not be related to that issue. Once we are able to examine the gear, we may be able to determine if this was the case or not.
Dirtme ... please call me at 800-360-3990 as soon as possible so that we can connect. Since you said you emailed me already, I'd suggest phoning since there may be a problem with email that prevents us from talking right away.
Again, we take quality control very seriously and do everything possible to ensure safe products. You can count on us to provide all available information regarding our investigation once it's complete.
Regards,
--ML
______________
Michael Lane
Sales & Marketing Director
Omega Pacific
Airway Heights, Washington
(This post was edited by michaellane on Nov 26, 2007, 5:30 PM)
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xtremst80
Nov 26, 2007, 5:38 PM
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medicus wrote: ja1484 wrote: This is why I hung back on these things for a while. The more moving parts you add... I'm glad I hung back as well.
I agree! I will take a cam with fewer moving parts over these any day. Ill give OP another year then I give one a try.
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boymeetsrock
Nov 26, 2007, 5:52 PM
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It is refreshing to see a company standing by their products and consumers, and owning any possible mistakes. Thank you Michael!
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ddt
Nov 27, 2007, 7:32 AM
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michaellane wrote: For some reason, I'm not getting email notification when I get PM'd ...
Michael, be sure to turn on e-mail notification for PM's on our Forum settings page, which can be found by clicking "Settings" in the secondary navigation bar on top of this page. Here's the direct link: http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ser_profile_display;
Then you also need to make sure the e-mail address on you account is correct (it looks right to me) and that your spam blocker doesn't block e-mails from rockclimbing.com.
Cheers,
DDT
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ja1484
Nov 27, 2007, 12:37 PM
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boymeetsrock wrote: It is refreshing to see a company standing by their products and consumers, and owning any possible mistakes. Thank you Michael!
Michael/OP have always been very responsive to concerns regarding their gear. That's why I still buy OP products, but not hardware from...certain other manufacturers.
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wanderlustmd
Nov 27, 2007, 2:32 PM
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boymeetsrock wrote: It is refreshing to see a company standing by their products and consumers, and owning any possible mistakes. Thank you Michael!
It'd be even better to see said company make stuff that doesn't disintegrate under load. Customer service doesn't mean much to people who've decked.
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