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billcoe_
May 2, 2007, 4:45 AM
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http://www.rockclimbing.com/...;;page=unread#unread
http://www.supertopo.com/...59&tn=0&mr=0
In discussing this RC.com post, wherein a climber was nearly killed when his Alien failed, a new report of another Alien failure has surfaced.
I have had all of mine tested, and rarely fall or hang on gear. I am leaving for Yosemite in 4 days and will be taking and using mine. BUT, I am shocked by the second failure. Micah Dash said " I saw another Alien brazeing failure, with my own eyes, yesterday in Indian Creek. It was a new purple Alien maybe six months old. Nobody was hurt.We took pictures and will post them soon. "
It was a purple, placed at Indian Creek. Purple = 3500 lbs. Indain Creek = sandstone. You'd have expected the cam to track out or blow the rock out on the placement long before it fell apart.
The first guy getting nearly killed in a fall was bad as there may have been a bad belay as well, this adds to the suckiness factor substantially.
To advise being careful is an understatement.
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kane_schutzman
May 2, 2007, 4:57 AM
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Shit, I bought my purples 6 months ago, and sent them back because they were part of a recall batch. This sucks
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112
May 2, 2007, 5:36 AM
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I have my black, blue, and green loaned out to a good friend. Makes me worry if I should tell him to put them up? They are not brand new but they were produced during the dimple infestation. :(
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superbum
May 2, 2007, 6:13 AM
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GAWDDAMIT! Why oh why is the best cam ever made turning out to be a piece of shit?!?! I hope you are all liars...
aliens are the best unless they are breaking then that would make them the worst dissapointment ever...
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norushnomore
May 2, 2007, 9:28 AM
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I swapped all my aliens for c3s and never looked back.
Aliens now my bail gear
Use at your own risk if you find one ;)
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kevinheiss
May 2, 2007, 12:23 PM
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As much as Aliens are really good,(starting to like them more then my TCU), their recalls are keeping me far away from them.
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tradmanclimbs
May 2, 2007, 12:47 PM
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First of all the only real advantage for aliens is in the small sizes and off sets. You would have to be nuts to choose an orange alien over a red camalot. Now that The C3s and 4s are here the only reason to go with a standard alien is price. Buy a cheap piece of crap and take your chances or spend the big bucks... it's the way of the world. If you are an aid climber and have to use offsets its fine cause aid climbers are used to crap gear anyways
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m2j1s
May 2, 2007, 1:47 PM
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just curious, why does everyone keep reporting that they have a failed alien and they have pictures of it, but nobody takes the 2 minutes it takes to post the actual pics? obviously pictures are the only proof of a failed cam, so what is taking so long?
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tradmanclimbs
May 2, 2007, 1:52 PM
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failed aliens are not a myth, they are a reality......
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bobruef
May 2, 2007, 2:02 PM
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somebody should put up a *sticky* thread w/ links to other threads discussing recent alien failures.
i.e.- misdrilled axle, the dimpled one at The Creek, this recent non-dimpled one at The Creek, the bodyweighted orange, the one at The Red, and any others I'm forgetting
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Dillbag
May 2, 2007, 2:38 PM
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Why don't you put it together and PM a mod to get it stickyed?
Talk is cheap...
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bobruef
May 2, 2007, 3:19 PM
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OK, here's what I dug up based on memory and a quick search. If the threads I linked here aren't the best sources, or my descriptions are innacurate, somebody please post up a correction.
5/15/7 Non-dimpled Blue Alien fails at 900lbs when tested by Russ Walling http://www.rockclimbing.com/...2;page=unread#unread
Souders Crack 11d groundfall (broken cable, non dimpled, post recall)http://www.rockclimbing.com/...=groundfall;#1585733
Faulty Swage (post recall)
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...n%20failure;#1316820
Dimpled Orange Alien Braze Failure at Indian Creek (the cam that started the recall)
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...n%20failure;#1277756
Gray Alien braze failure (2005, pre-recall)
http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
Non dimpled Paradise Forks Orange Alien bodyweight braze failure (post-recall)
http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
Misdrilled Axle Holes (rei recall thread)
http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
Latest Indian Creek Purple Alien braze failure (newer cam, post-recall)
http://www.supertopo.com/...59&tn=0&mr=0
Tradrenn's oddly sized alien (deleted post)tradrenn wrote: Just the other day I was inspecting my gear ( OK I was bored and had nothing better to do with my time ) and after looking at my Aliens I have discover a little problem with my Yellow ones ( I have to of them ) The problem is that one Yellow Alien has a proper range of Yellow Alien, like it should. Second Yellow Alien has a range of Grey Alien. Difference between Yellow and Grey size range is not that much so it is just a minor inconvenience ( got to get some grey electrical tape ) Here are some picks for you people. The height of good lobe on yellow alien ( 0.508" ) The length of good lobe on yellow alien ( 0.709" ) The height of lobe on grey alien ( 0.553" ) The length of lobe on grey alien ( 0.774" ) The height of lobe on "bad" yellow alien ( 0.553 ) The length of lobe on "bad yellow alien ( 0.773" ) Range of yellow alien ( 0.698" ) (notice the yellow sling ) Range of grey alien ( 0.760" ) (notice the grey sling ) Range of "bad" yellow alien ( 0.761" ) (notice the yellow sling ) So, here is a little heads up for some of you that are getting into Aliens or buying more Aliens.
Edited to add 5/15 failure
(This post was edited by bobruef on May 15, 2007, 9:07 PM)
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roy_hinkley_jr
May 2, 2007, 5:17 PM
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billcoe_ wrote: To advise being careful is an understatement.
Lotsa talk, no photos. Still nothing but rumors an innuendo until some folks post jpgs...it ain't that hard.
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slucarelli
May 2, 2007, 7:52 PM
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I would never choose an orange Alien over a Red Camalot because they are not the same size. And believe it or not the larger Aliens sometimes fit better than Camalots. Also try using a Camalot in a shallow horizontal and see what happens to the stem.
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tradmanclimbs
May 2, 2007, 8:32 PM
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Whatever.. the larger aliens are just so freakin cheesy looking compared to a real cam JMOP
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m2j1s
May 2, 2007, 9:51 PM
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roy_hinkley_jr wrote: billcoe_ wrote: To advise being careful is an understatement. Lotsa talk, no photos. Still nothing but rumors an innuendo until some folks post jpgs...it ain't that hard.
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altelis
May 2, 2007, 11:24 PM
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m2j1s wrote: p.s. just curious, how many out there have taken whippers on aliens that held?[/quote sorry, but TERRIBLE logic like this makes me laugh. this is the WHOLE reason people want to post about cams that fail. we have an expectation that they won't fail, both because we have been told they won't and because we have LOADS of personal experience that tells us they won't. We've aided on them, bounce tested them, set anchors with them, whipped hard on them and they fail. all this personal experience leads us to believe that the next one we place should be no different. so, do you see how pointless it is to ask for experiences that back up experiences we have all had in order to confirm a belief that we all have that cams hold falls. we all know that cams, aliens included, hold falls. FOR THE MOST PART. what is important is sharing instances that show us our belief/trust may sometimes be ill-founded. not that we have to automatically trust these posts; yes, we should be skeptical and discerning....but filling pages and pages of posts of people that have cams that have held falls is USELESS
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tallmark515
May 2, 2007, 11:31 PM
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no photos to back this up, only experience. Not much of a safety issue, but worth noting. The woven metal sheath that connects the trigger to the bar that the lobes are wired to on a climbing partner's Orange Alien tore in half. The seperation occoured right at the point that the sheath connects to the bar. It made removing the cam from a crack a pain in the ass and pretty much rendered the unit useless after we finally got it out with a nut tool. No word on a response from CCH.
Note: Not a recalled unit.
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Dillbag
May 3, 2007, 1:38 AM
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tallmark515 wrote: no photos to back this up, only experience. Not much of a safety issue, but worth noting. The woven metal sheath that connects the trigger to the bar that the lobes are wired to on a climbing partner's Orange Alien tore in half. The seperation occoured right at the point that the sheath connects to the bar. It made removing the cam from a crack a pain in the ass and pretty much rendered the unit useless after we finally got it out with a nut tool. No word on a response from CCH. Note: Not a recalled unit.
Yes, but that is not a critical component in the safety of the unit...
Only for getting the piece out of the rock, which is of course important, but by no means anywhere close to the severity of an actual failure!
The problem you described can happen when the cams are older and the sheath has seen a lot of abuse. Similar to trigger wires breaking on a BD or Metolius...Since the sheath is in essence an extension of those trigger wires on the alien.
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tradrenn
May 3, 2007, 1:43 AM
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Bob
Thank you for a list.
Lets add one more thread about Aliens
"Minor problem with new Aliens" which was unfortunately deleted by me, ( I was getting fed up with old RC ) I feel stupid for deleting it now.
But:
As it turns out, I did save a copy of OP.
tradrenn wrote: Just the other day I was inspecting my gear ( OK I was bored and had nothing better to do with my time ) and after looking at my Aliens I have discover a little problem with my Yellow ones ( I have to of them ) The problem is that one Yellow Alien has a proper range of Yellow Alien, like it should. Second Yellow Alien has a range of Grey Alien. Difference between Yellow and Grey size range is not that much so it is just a minor inconvenience ( got to get some grey electrical tape ) Here are some picks for you people. The height of good lobe on yellow alien ( 0.508" )  The length of good lobe on yellow alien ( 0.709" )  The height of lobe on grey alien ( 0.553" )  The length of lobe on grey alien ( 0.774" )  The height of lobe on "bad" yellow alien ( 0.553 )  The length of lobe on "bad yellow alien ( 0.773" )  Range of yellow alien ( 0.698" ) (notice the yellow sling )  Range of grey alien ( 0.760" ) (notice the grey sling )  Range of "bad" yellow alien ( 0.761" ) (notice the yellow sling )  So, here is a little heads up for some of you that are getting into Aliens or buying more Aliens.
After that thread I did email CCH and told Dave about my problem, he asked me to give him a call.
I called Dave and we have come to conclusion that it was gray alien that was labeled yellow.
Following our conversation I did send that "bad yellow alien" ( as I used to call it in a "Minor......" thread ) with one more alien.
Cams were delivered to CCH on Sept 5 2006
I haven't heard from CCH since.
HTH
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j_ung
May 3, 2007, 1:51 AM
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Nice, Bob! Thanks! I hope is well in Maryland-land.
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slucarelli
May 3, 2007, 1:50 PM
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I own all eight Aliens except the grey one and I have personally fallen on every one, even the .33. I have taken up to 20' falls on them and took several 10' falls on the .33 without any problems. I fell on the blue Alien when it was placed in a horizontal crack, and I took a 20' fall on the large purple Alien on El Cap. last Spring. I use them in all types of rock including sand stone (Indian Creek), Granite and limestone (Yamnuska, Alberta Canada). I agree that failures are unacceptable but I personally think Aliens are great and they are always on my rack. My rack consists of Aliens, Camalots and a couple sets of stoppers and I climb 95% trad routes.
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saxfiend
May 3, 2007, 2:13 PM
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m2j1s wrote: roy_hinkley_jr wrote: Lotsa talk, no photos. Still nothing but rumors an innuendo until some folks post jpgs...it ain't that hard. i second that... talk is cheap unless it's backed by photos.
JL
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Ok, fair enough.... I'll compile those links and send them to a mod, but I want to be sure its a complete list. If anyone knows of any aditional failures other than those I referenced above, please post the link here. 
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