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majid_sabet
Jul 18, 2007, 4:36 PM
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Wednesday, July 18, 2007
12-year-old climber unharmed by 50-foot fall in Rumney
An 12-year-old girl climbing some of the area's well-known cliffs Tuesday fell between 40 and 50 feet from her rope, landing on one of her fellow climbers at the bottom of the cliff. Neither was seriously injured.
N.H. Fish and Game officers said it was not immediately clear why Hannah Meharg fell from Hinterland Cliff at about 2 p.m., but her fellow climber at the bottom of the ..............
http://www.citizen.com/...107180329/-1/CITIZEN
Also another report here
http://www.unionleader.com/...d+after+40-foot+fall
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Jul 18, 2007, 4:44 PM)
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bent_gate
Jul 18, 2007, 5:01 PM
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Hmm, First report says she fell, someone tried to catch her, and the second report says she fell, and had a belayer and a back-up belayer.
Typical media coverage of an accident.
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jakedatc
Jul 18, 2007, 5:05 PM
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wow.. Hinterlands is not a fun place to get down off of carrying someone.
I'm glad the girl is ok.
Bent gate i agree.. Not very clear as to what happened.
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majid_sabet
Jul 18, 2007, 5:22 PM
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In reply to: 11 years old was belaying a 13 years old on a 50 foot wall |
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jakedatc
Jul 18, 2007, 5:26 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: In reply to: 11 years old was belaying a 13 years old on a 50 foot wall
whats your fucking point noob...
you weren't there.. you don't have a fucking clue what happened..
Plus get your facts straight.. it says the girl who fell was 11 and the belayer was 13. i mean damn.. you can't even copy and paste correctly
(This post was edited by jakedatc on Jul 18, 2007, 5:59 PM)
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burrito
Jul 18, 2007, 5:59 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: In reply to: 11 years old was belaying a 13 years old on a 50 foot wall
Actually, it appears it was a 13-year-old belaying an 11-year-old, with a back-up belayer. ("Berk said that she couldn't be positive about what happened, but she said she remembers belaying her with everything working smoothly. There was also an assistant belayer serving as backup.") I don't see anything wrong with that scenario, at least not on its face.
The fact that witnesses say she may have accidentally "unclipped herself from the rope" is troubling, since it indicates to me that it's possible she wasn't properly instructed not to, say, clean the draws at the anchor or something. But it's also possible she just got confused when she got there and, despite proper instruction, did it anyway.
Main point, which has already been brought up: we just don't know, so we're not in a place to judge.
And I, too, am glad the girl's okay.
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reno
Jul 18, 2007, 6:04 PM
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Majid:
Please remember that accident posts should be of high quality, per the forum guidelines on main page: "Please keep posts factual and of high quality."
A thread with conflicting reports about a person who fell hardly qualifies as "high quality."
Jakedatc:
Ease up on the personal attacks. You don't like Majid, fine, we all get that. But you need not escalate the disagreement with harsh comments.
Thank you both.
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noburu
Jul 18, 2007, 6:08 PM
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Wondering what they mean by she may have unclipped herself before she fell. Was she leading the route? If not, and she was on toprope, the instructors would have been able to tell that she unclipped the hardpoint immediately. Oh well, everyones alright and that's good.
P.S. Jake! aggression! I like the defensive passion!
Nick
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markc
Jul 18, 2007, 6:11 PM
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bent_gate wrote: Hmm, First report says she fell, someone tried to catch her, and the second report says she fell, and had a belayer and a back-up belayer. Typical media coverage of an accident.
It's very confused, and it seems like the campers and counselors don't know quite what happened, either. My take on both articles is that she was being belayed by the girl that 'caught' her at the base of the climb. What's really unclear is the mode of failure.
The Union Leader article stated the victim may have accidentally unclipped before the fall. That suggests they were clipping climbers in rather than tying them in direct. While it allows faster turn-over, I'm not a fan of the practice. We can only wonder if that's accurate, how many biners were in use, if they were locked.
Belaying is a lot of responsibility to give someone at that age. While I'm sure there are some kids out there that can handle it, I wonder how much instruction and supervision takes place. Were it my kid, I'd want a counselor or one of the junior counselors checking each kid out before climbing, backing up belays if you permit kids to belay each other, etc. That said, it's not entirely clear what their practices are from either article. Glad to hear both girls are going to be okay. That could have ended badly for both of them.
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markc
Jul 18, 2007, 6:15 PM
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noburu wrote: Wondering what they mean by she may have unclipped herself before she fell. Was she leading the route? If not, and she was on toprope, the instructors would have been able to tell that she unclipped the hardpoint immediately. Oh well, everyones alright and that's good. P.S. Jake! aggression! I like the defensive passion! Nick
I was thinking it meant she was clipped in to the rope rather than tied in, but it could be that she somehow unclipped the rope from the anchor. I doubt she would be leading the route, as one article said it was either their first or second day of technical climbing.
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jakedatc
Jul 18, 2007, 6:24 PM
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i highly doubt they would be leading. They sometimes do double lockers with certain groups(some tie in.. some clip) at the gym but i have no idea if they would do that outdoors.
I have theories but i'd rather wait for a better article or talk to friends who were there.
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Gmburns2000
Jul 18, 2007, 6:36 PM
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I wonder if they were using biners to clip into the harness, as some gyms do. I can see a camp group doing that for ease of transferring inexperienced climbers who may not get the figure-8 tied right from rope to rope. I'm not condoning the practice, but I could that being the case. I know this is speculation, but I could see where if that were the case then maybe the biner somehow coming loose, or she made an adjustment without knowing what happened. Again, just speculating and trying to see a different angle from the possibility of either leading or unclipping a toprope.
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majid_sabet
Jul 18, 2007, 6:55 PM
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reno wrote: Majid: Please remember that accident posts should be of high quality, per the forum guidelines on main page: "Please keep posts factual and of high quality." A thread with conflicting reports about a person who fell hardly qualifies as "high quality." Jakedatc: Ease up on the personal attacks. You don't like Majid, fine, we all get that. But you need not escalate the disagreement with harsh comments. Thank you both.
Reno
I understand what you are saying that but if you read this similar post
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...apsed;guest=17635106
An RC member in fact was there when the accident happened and because of such posting, other climbers came in shared their experiences and eventually the injured climber himself posted his complete accident report and that is what these posting are all about.
I never said each report has to be clear cut I do not expect them to be perfect and if you think all accident reports must be in such detail then I guess we have to wait for injured climbers to come forward with their own version which I know is not going to happen or just completely shut down the I &A forum and forget about all accidents.
I will say this again and again that each accidents contains some amount of information, may be not as detail as you wanted but, it is enough to encourage others to come forward and talk about them.
May be this particular accident was belayer error, guiding error, management error or gear error or whatever, we still have to treat it as an accident till proven otherwise and if an individual member of RC does not like what they see, they can either move on to another forum or they could go and bang their head to a rock till they become unconscious.
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Jul 18, 2007, 6:56 PM)
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reno
Jul 18, 2007, 7:09 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: May be this particular accident was belayer error, guiding error, management error or gear error or whatever, we still have to treat it as an accident till proven otherwise
So, you don't know what happened, you don't know WHY it happened, you don't know what the result is, you don't know who belayed who, and nothing can come of this except speculation unfounded by any facts.
That about sum it up?
In reply to: if an individual member of RC does not like what they see, they can either move on to another forum or they could go and bang their head to a rock till they become unconscious.
This has nothing to do with "an individual member," Majid. This has to do with YOU, failing to follow one simple rule regarding one forum. Don't try to blame others because YOU break the rules.
Post facts in Injuries and Accidents. How difficult is that to follow?
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majid_sabet
Jul 18, 2007, 7:11 PM
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reno wrote: majid_sabet wrote: May be this particular accident was belayer error, guiding error, management error or gear error or whatever, we still have to treat it as an accident till proven otherwise So, you don't know what happened, you don't know WHY it happened, you don't know what the result is, you don't know who belayed who, and nothing can come of this except speculation unfounded by any facts. That about sum it up? In reply to: if an individual member of RC does not like what they see, they can either move on to another forum or they could go and bang their head to a rock till they become unconscious. This has nothing to do with "an individual member," Majid. This has to do with YOU, failing to follow one simple rule regarding one forum. Don't try to blame others because YOU break the rules. Post facts in Injuries and Accidents. How difficult is that to follow?
Does every body who post report in RC , post their 100% fact ?
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chadnsc
Jul 18, 2007, 7:16 PM
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Probably not, but at least most of us who post have a clear understanding of the written English language.
Please improve your writing and you won't get flamed so often. That and we as readers will be able to understand what you're trying type.
(This post was edited by chadnsc on Jul 18, 2007, 7:17 PM)
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reno
Jul 18, 2007, 7:17 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: Does every body who post report in RC , post their 100% fact ?
*sigh*
Of course not. But they also state as much, along the lines of "I'm not sure exactly what happened here...." or "It's possible that..... but this is speculation and could be wrong."
You don't do that, Majid. You post a link to a web-story, make no follow up, and then claim to be innocent of wrongdoing when your source turns out to be in error.
If you wish to purport yourself as a reporter of news (which is how it appears when you link one story after another after another,) then you should make an effort to ascertain that your "sources" are correct.
Do you understand that simple premise?
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crimpandgo
Jul 18, 2007, 7:22 PM
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Not sure I understand the problem?
Majid posted two direct links to articles from news sources. that's not Majid's opinion. that is fact that anyone can read.
The fact that the articles conflict is simply a common occurance in the news reporting times today. I don't believe thats a reason not to post up and allow people to talk about it.
I for one think this is a cool story. I remember getting trashed earlier for suggesting a belayer may be able to catch person's fall from these heights. Well here is a perfect example. There may be speculation about what caused the original accident. But make no mistake, it looks pretty clear that a 13 year girl performed a pretty heroic feat.
Kudos to the belayer.
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majid_sabet
Jul 18, 2007, 7:22 PM
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chadnsc wrote: Probably not, but at least most of us who post have a clear understanding of the written English language. Please improve your writing and you won't get flamed so often. That and we as readers will be able to understand what you're trying type.
I did not write this report or any other accident report. what you see above came directly from the link listed right below my post, word by word.
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chadnsc
Jul 18, 2007, 7:44 PM
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I wasn't referring to the linked article. I was referring to your poor use of the written English language in your witty (snicker) prose found elsewhere on this site.
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majid_sabet
Jul 18, 2007, 7:46 PM
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chadnsc wrote: I wasn't referring to the linked article. I was referring to your poor use of the written English language in your witty (snicker) prose found elsewhere on this site.
your comments has nothing to do with this post therefore has no value other than personal attack.
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fitzontherocks
Jul 18, 2007, 7:59 PM
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chadnsc wrote: That and we as readers will be able to understand what you're trying type.
We all make mistakes, don't we?
In general, I agree that Majid's writing in English is often unintelligible. But here, he just posted links to stories-- which happen to conflict with each other. The words at the beginning of the original post are NOT Majid's-- they're from the first article.
(This post was edited by fitzontherocks on Jul 18, 2007, 8:05 PM)
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hummm
Jul 18, 2007, 8:04 PM
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Why does every post become a Majid piss match.....
I remember when Majid added his comment with those injury reports, you guys had problems, now he just quote and post, you still have problem with him. So again, he is damned if he did, and damned if he didn’t. Yeah, I understand sometime his comments come off as flaming, but as far as this post, I don't see he did anything deserved to get flame on. Can’t we all just have some self control?! (including me)
Yes, the stories are not so good, but I got a general sense of what had happen. Just because the stories are poor, doesn't mean they shouldn't get posted. Come’on, most of the stories about Michael Reardon that were posted didn’t have good information at the beginning, first he was a tourist that got wash off to the sea, then he was climbing. I still couldn’t figure out how old he is. Is that mean none of those stories shouldn’t get post, I guess not.
Okay… done ranting, happy Wednesday. 
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jakedatc
Jul 18, 2007, 8:07 PM
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exactly.. he posted the links.. he posts them without regard to the facts contained in them.. he is like CNN throwing out the newest latest "breaking new!!!!!" as fast as he can without checking to see if they have correct information or not
Majid_Google.com
Regardless of how it happened, i'm glad Hannah (yes majid.. these people have names. families. friends.. they are not just statistics) is in decent condition.. the stories conflict her exact injuries but the rock at the hinterlands is generally pretty vertical and it's quite amazing she came away without more damage.
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reno
Jul 18, 2007, 8:08 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: your comments has nothing to do with this post therefore has no value other than personal attack.
Much like every time you refer to someone as "n00b"??
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12-year-old climber fell 50 feet
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