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lithiummetalman
Jul 15, 2008, 6:01 PM
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Apologize if this has been covered before...
Interested in information/in-depth books covering sports nutrition for both vegetarians and omnivores.
Any recommendations?
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irregularpanda
Jul 15, 2008, 6:13 PM
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lithiummetalman wrote: Apologize if this has been covered before... Interested in information/in-depth books covering sports nutrition for both vegetarians and omnivores. Any recommendations?
My recommendation: Take whole grains like quinoa, millet, barley etc. Mix them, and then cook them in pig's backfat, with some water too I guess. If you mix in hotsauce, then you'll be eating a gourmet meal for dirtbags.
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aerili
Jul 15, 2008, 8:02 PM
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I always advise to check out Nancy Clark's books. She is an RD with a specialized background in Sports Dietetics.
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Carnage
Jul 16, 2008, 1:24 PM
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im no expert but everything ive learned i looked up online, from a body building website, and then run by my roomate (who picks up heavy shit at the gym all the time)
so most meals want to be high in lean protein and complex carbs. im not to strict about this part, i usually kinda eat what i want, when i can make a healthier choice, i do it (ie wheat instead of white anything, lean turkey burgers instead of 80/20 burgs).
i've found the most important thing is the post workout meal. You need a fast digesting protein (whey protein powder) and some carbs. you need about 50% simple and 50% complex. there are supplements that have this, or you can put some sugar and oats in with your shake. depending on your body weight the exact number, but you typically want a carb to protein ratio of 2:1. so i weigh about 170 and i get about 30g of protein and 60g of carbs.
i've noticed, since i've been eating right, i get less cramps, and feel a hell of a lot better the next day. i've also gained about 20 lbs of body weight, while still looking like i have no fat on me.
best thing to do is read some bodybuilding articles on nutrition. they know what they are talking about.
here are some links, google for more. (if i've said something that contradicts the article, listen to the article, i read this shit a while ago)
http://www.bodybuilding.com/...PostWorkoutNutrition
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iron106
Jul 16, 2008, 1:36 PM
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I am a vegetarian and I have not found anything good. Anything from textbooks to cookbooks. Just it is hard to get enough protein, No shit. Hard for a veg to get protein?
My suggestion incorporate high protein snacks, Milk cheese, yogurt, ( if you eat these), nuts, tofu, beans into little snack throughout the day, B-12 is hard to get also read the labels choose some with B-12 in it over something that does not. If you try for just big Protein meals at dinner or any one meal you can only absorb 40 grams of protein ( a lot) at once. Also research foods that have complete proteins vs incomplete proteins.
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aerili
Jul 16, 2008, 8:28 PM
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Carnage wrote: best thing to do is read some bodybuilding articles on nutrition. they know what they are talking about.
I didn't realize bodybuilders had such expertise in vegetarian nutrition, considering most of them eat cans of tuna and skinless chicken breasts like they were the only food left on earth.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Also, next time I do a backcountry approach and descent of several hours or ride my mountain bike all day, I will make sure to ask a bodybuilder what I should eat.
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ryanb
Jul 16, 2008, 9:03 PM
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Yeah I tried to eat like a body builder for a while thinking it be good for climbing. It might work for bouldering but it leaves you low energy and mentally week for long routes and hard work out days. Eat your complex carbs and you'll be happier.
I'm not veg any more but I still have leanings that way, last couple of weekends i've been doing 4 am starts with coffee, granola, evaporated organic milk (non instant=more protean + calcium, mix it up before bed) and hard boiled eggs.
Dinner the night before some variation of rice and beans and cheese, pb and j + trail mix + bars + goo during the day.
I'm quite happy with the amount of energy this gives me.
Edit: Dave Macloed's training blog has some good info about an athletes diet. Mostly he recommends pasta: http://www.onlineclimbingcoach.blogspot.com/
(This post was edited by ryanb on Jul 16, 2008, 9:05 PM)
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devkrev
Jul 16, 2008, 9:20 PM
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aerili wrote: Carnage wrote: best thing to do is read some bodybuilding articles on nutrition. they know what they are talking about. I didn't realize bodybuilders had such expertise in vegetarian nutrition, considering most of them eat cans of tuna and skinless chicken breasts like they were the only food left on earth. Thanks for clearing that up. Also, next time I do a backcountry approach and descent of several hours or ride my mountain bike all day, I will make sure to ask a bodybuilder what I should eat.
MUSCLE MILK!!!!
PROTEIN!!!!
HGH!!!!!
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sungam
Jul 17, 2008, 12:10 AM
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devkrev wrote: aerili wrote: Carnage wrote: best thing to do is read some bodybuilding articles on nutrition. they know what they are talking about. I didn't realize bodybuilders had such expertise in vegetarian nutrition, considering most of them eat cans of tuna and skinless chicken breasts like they were the only food left on earth. Thanks for clearing that up. Also, next time I do a backcountry approach and descent of several hours or ride my mountain bike all day, I will make sure to ask a bodybuilder what I should eat. MUSCLE MILK!!!! PROTEIN!!!! HGH!!!!!
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jt512
Jul 17, 2008, 4:05 AM
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lithiummetalman wrote: Apologize if this has been covered before... Interested in information/in-depth books covering sports nutrition for both vegetarians and omnivores. Any recommendations?
For vegetarians, the chapter on nutrition for athletes in The Vegetarian Way by Messina and Messina is excellent.
For anyone interested in weight loss, my little paper, which you can download here, should get you started.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Jul 17, 2008, 4:08 AM)
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jt512
Jul 17, 2008, 4:47 AM
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justroberto wrote: ryanb wrote: Yeah I tried to eat like a body builder for a while thinking it be good for climbing. It might work for bouldering but it leaves you low energy and mentally week Back on the diet? 
D'oh! Beat me to it.
Jay
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climbs4fun
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Jul 17, 2008, 5:24 AM
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jt512 wrote: lithiummetalman wrote: Apologize if this has been covered before... Interested in information/in-depth books covering sports nutrition for both vegetarians and omnivores. Any recommendations? For vegetarians, the chapter on nutrition for athletes in The Vegetarian Way by Messina and Messina is excellent. For anyone interested in weight loss, my little paper, which you can download here, should get you started. Jay
Jay, I've read similar articles to yours recently where it is explained about your body breaking down fat as well as muscle mass. With this being the case, how is it that so many people resort to such rediculous diets as Atkins where they cut out carbs completely? Or at least try to. It makes no sense to me.
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spikeddem
Jul 17, 2008, 6:22 AM
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climbs4fun wrote: jt512 wrote: lithiummetalman wrote: Apologize if this has been covered before... Interested in information/in-depth books covering sports nutrition for both vegetarians and omnivores. Any recommendations? For vegetarians, the chapter on nutrition for athletes in The Vegetarian Way by Messina and Messina is excellent. For anyone interested in weight loss, my little paper, which you can download here, should get you started. Jay Jay, I've read similar articles to yours recently where it is explained about your body breaking down fat as well as muscle mass. With this being the case, how is it that so many people resort to such rediculous diets as Atkins where they cut out carbs completely? Or at least try to. It makes no sense to me.
Generalizations:
Many of the carbs Americans eat today affect insulin sensitivity. When insulin is released, the body is more likely to build muscle and/or store fat. This is why many bodybuilders choose to have a lot of simple carbs after their workout, along with some source of protein.
If insulin isn't being spiked/released, then the body is less likely to store fat. By avoiding carbs, one can avoid a spike in insulin levels. Additionally, the water loss initially seen in the first week or two of these kinds of diets is often encouraging to those looking to lose weight.
The body's ability to react and adjust to conditions are what encourage ketogenic diets. When people consume large amounts of carbs, the body decreases its efficiency at metabolizing fats, because it can "expect" energy coming from carbs. However, when the body is "nearly" starved of these carbs, it adapts and increases its fat metabolizing abilities. Such diets require STRICT adherence, and can be massively successful if performed properly.
Also, foods have a certain "satiety" level. That is, some foods are more satisfying or filling than others. Often, sugary foods have lower satiety than other kinds of foods.
As was stated before, bodybuilders know a lot when it comes to diet stuff, more information describing what I just said can be found in this article: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/keto.htm
Now, I'm no RD, so Jay may have corrections to make.
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jt512
Jul 17, 2008, 8:21 PM
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climbs4fun wrote: jt512 wrote: lithiummetalman wrote: Apologize if this has been covered before... Interested in information/in-depth books covering sports nutrition for both vegetarians and omnivores. Any recommendations? For vegetarians, the chapter on nutrition for athletes in The Vegetarian Way by Messina and Messina is excellent. For anyone interested in weight loss, my little paper, which you can download here, should get you started. Jay Jay, I've read similar articles to yours recently where it is explained about your body breaking down fat as well as muscle mass. With this being the case, how is it that so many people resort to such rediculous diets as Atkins where they cut out carbs completely? Or at least try to. It makes no sense to me.
For some reason, popular nutrition is subject to fads. Perhaps because the subject is complex and there's a lot that is still unknown, there is room for people to form opinions, right or wrong. You don't see that in more mature sciences, like chemistry. No one really has an opinion that the composition of a water molecule is anything other that 2 atoms of hydrogen and 1 atom of oxygen.
Some people report that high-protein diets give them improved appetite control, so perhaps that's one reason why Atkins-like diets gained popularity. I don't think that the Atkins diet is healthy or even remotely appropriate for an athlete.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Jul 17, 2008, 8:22 PM)
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jt512
Jul 17, 2008, 8:24 PM
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spikeddem wrote: As was stated before, bodybuilders know a lot when it comes to diet stuff, more information describing what I just said can be found in this article: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/keto.htm Now, I'm no RD, so Jay may have corrections to make.
My main correction would be that bodybuilders think they know more about nutrition than they really do.
Jay
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getout87
Jul 17, 2008, 8:32 PM
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jt512 wrote: spikeddem wrote: As was stated before, bodybuilders know a lot when it comes to diet stuff, more information describing what I just said can be found in this article: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/keto.htm Now, I'm no RD, so Jay may have corrections to make. My main correction would be that bodybuilders think they know more about nutrition than they really do. Jay
Yep.
"I ate 4 chickens today and drank 6 gallons of water, and I can't for the life of me figure out where my balls are."
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Carnage
Jul 17, 2008, 8:42 PM
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body builders do know what you need to eat for a long day of backpacking, or climbing or what. you may have to ask, but if you appropriately describe the activity to them, they will give you good advice of what you need to eat.
same thing with vegetarian shit.
jay: dumbass body builders think they know more than they do, same thing with dumbass climbers. find someone who knows what they are talking about and talk to them.
also note, i never recommended simple carbs only. body builders only use simple carbs when bulking up, most of the time they also use complex carbs. simple carbs are used only in the post workout shake to help cause the insulin spike, which ends the muscle break down and starts the muscle repair.
so the advice from a body builder on what i should eat during a full day of climbing?
good breakfast of eggs bacon, and some complex carbs, like oatmeal. A protein shake when i get to the wall so i dont get hungry, but dont get full, 2 turkey sandwiches(wheat bread) during the day, about 3 hours apart, then a good dinner. i throw a(note: only 1 Gatorade, im drinking mostly water during the day) Gatorade to help keep my energy up. This works for me. I dunno what a vegetarian would do and honestly i dont care.
edit: in respect to the atkins comments, the idea is that if your body has no carbs for energy, it will use fats. This kinda fucks with your body though and as soon as you start eating carbs again, you gain the weight back. There are diets out there that help train your body to use fat instead of carbs(or something like that). similarly, you dont eat any carbs, but you do some other shit different. I didnt read up on it, i worry about muscle building, not losing weight.
(This post was edited by Carnage on Jul 17, 2008, 8:45 PM)
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jt512
Jul 17, 2008, 8:58 PM
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Carnage wrote: body builders do know what you need to eat for a long day of backpacking, or climbing or what. [...] so the advice from a body builder on what i should eat during a full day of climbing? good breakfast of eggs bacon...
Quoted for properity!
Jay
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angry
Jul 17, 2008, 9:06 PM
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I have about a months supply of Genotropin (hgh). It's worth about $7000. Think I can sell it on Ebay?
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getout87
Jul 17, 2008, 9:09 PM
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angry wrote: I have about a months supply of Genotropin (hgh). It's worth about $7000. Think I can sell it on Ebay?
damn, you get roided up for that 12d OW send?
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lithiummetalman
Jul 17, 2008, 9:09 PM
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Thanks for the replies!
I checked out Nancy Clark's, "Sports Nutrition 4th edition" (thanks aerli) , which is has some very well organized information; her info on dieting is quite similar to jt512's guidelines.
Have not checked out the "The Vegetarian Way" yet but def will.(thanks jt512)
Thanks for the links to BB, Carnage, definitely has an entourage of articles!
I have also perused through some supplemental info:
T.Colin Campbell (aka Jacob Gould Shurman): "The China Study"
as well as
Weston A. Price: "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration"
Just need to mull over the info now.....
Taunts & advice welcomed!
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jt512
Jul 17, 2008, 9:47 PM
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lithiummetalman wrote: Ts! I have also perused through some supplemental info: T.Colin Campbell (aka Jacob Gould Shurman): "The China Study"
"Jacob Gould Schurman" is not an alias for Colin Campbell. Campbell is the Jacob Gould Schurman Professor Emeritus of Nutritional Biochemistry at Cornell Univ. He is also a fanatical vegan, and his China Health Study, which the vegan community holds in such high regard, had a weak design (cross-sectional, ecologic).
In reply to: Weston A. Price: "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration"
Weston Price was a 1930s-era dentist who drew pseudoscientific conclusions about nutrition from observations of the teeth of "primitive" cultures. His present-day followers -- members of the Weston Price Foundation -- are low-carb fanatics.
There's not much to be learned from either of those sources, besides how not to do nutrition research.
Jay
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sungam
Jul 17, 2008, 9:53 PM
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jt512 wrote: lithiummetalman wrote: Ts! I have also perused through some supplemental info: T.Colin Campbell (aka Jacob Gould Shurman): "The China Study" "Jacob Gould Schurman" is not an alias for Colin Campbell. Campbell is the Jacob Gould Schurman Professor Emeritus of Nutritional Biochemistry at Cornell Univ. He is also a fanatical vegan, and his China Health Study, which the vegan community holds in such high regard, had a weak design (cross-sectional, ecologic). In reply to: Weston A. Price: "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" Weston Price was a 1930s-era dentist who drew pseudoscientific conclusions about nutrition from observations of the teeth of "primitive" cultures. His present-day followers -- members of the Weston Price Foundation -- are low-carb fanatics. There's not much to be learned from either of those sources, besides how not to do nutrition research. Jay
We all see what you're saying.
So, when's your book out, then?
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lithiummetalman
Jul 18, 2008, 4:56 PM
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Finished both Price's and Campbell's books...
Both books were excellent; the caliber and quality of the books are of such high quality I have officially decided to add the books to my tinder collection 
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