Although you read about elongation in the Mammut 8.5 MM Genesis double rope, I never really grasped the full meaning until I watched one of my climbing buddies pop off a climb from about 10 feet off the ground. (She was seconding Double Crack at the gunks, a 160 foot climb). A 9% elongation factor= ~14 1/2 feet with 160 feet of rope out.

Anyways, my friend came off and watching the rope and my friend, it looked as if the belayer (who had set up the belay using an autoblock) let her zing through the belay device. My friend hit the ground at what looked like full force, as if she was not roped up at all. She landed on her tail bone and although it's not broken, it's mighty sore and really limiting her ability to get around.

So, just another thing to think about when you are bringing up your second.

Also...for Gunks climbers, the Urgent Care Center 3.5 miles outside of New Paltz (past 87) was amazing. My friend was xrayed, diagnosed and treated in 15 minutes! Really! (They even gave her two pain killers for the ride back to PA.) The place is only 8 months old, very beautiful and some of the staff are climbers. Beats waiting several hours at some emergency room.


Finally, Thank you Kim (Mohonk Preserve Education staff member who just happened to be walking by), Ranger Dave and Paul (Kim's friend) for all of your help getting my friend down the trail to the carriage road. You were all very kind and compassionate.

screw the "onsight" or whatever, just keep the rope nice and tuat for the first wee bit- you don't want any busted ankles.

Can this type of accident be avoided by bringing up the second with both ropes, not just one?

Can this type of accident be avoided by bringing up the second with both ropes, not just one?

Although you read about elongation in the Mammut 8.5 MM Genesis double rope, I never really grasped the full meaning until I watched one of my climbing buddies pop off a climb from about 10 feet off the ground. (She was seconding Double Crack at the gunks, a 160 foot climb). A 9% elongation factor= ~14 1/2 feet with 160 feet of rope out.

Anyway, my friend came off and watching the rope and my friend, it looked as if the belayer (who had set up the belay using an autoblock) let her zing through the belay device. My friend hit the ground at what looked like full force, as if she was not roped up at all. She landed on her tail bone and although it's not broken, it's mighty sore and really limiting her ability to get around.

So, just another thing to think about when you are bringing up your second.

I'm glad things turned out pretty alright and thank for posting. This brings up a habit that's good to develop as climber and belayer.

When are belaying for a second or for top roping don't just pull until you feel first feel tension take another arm length and pull on the rope. The rate at which the tension increases will give you an idea of rope stretch.

For the climber pull down on the rope and or sit down on the rope after the rope is "taught". This will tell you how far you are likely to fall from rope stretch alone and will take a little of "the stretch" out of the rope if needed.

If things suck the belayer can yard in rope with all his might and the climber can be stand up and sit down to help get "the stretch" out of the rope. If it still sucks you can climb up just a bit (to where you won't get hurt) and let the belayer yard in rope and climb down a bit and repeat to take in more rope.

I'm not assuming the belayer and climber didn't check things out. If I had to guess I'd guess they'd knew rope stretch would be an issue. I've smacked my own tailbone for the same reason when on a fair bit of tension. Mostly I don't spend a whole lot of time trying to get "full on tension" unless things seem hairy and just try not to fall. I've just remember some people don't seem to check and figured this might be a good place for a reminder for newish climbers.

I really think it's helpful for climbers and belayers to make a habit of doing a half second initial check to get an idea of what is going to be up with rope stretch. There's almost never a reason for the climber to be caught unaware about rope stretch. Depending on experience and rope drag the belayer should be able to get a pretty good idea too.

I don't think it's a good idea to leave it just to the belayer. Where the rope drag is makes a difference and it's harder to feel what's going to happen from the other end. You can actually make some educated guesses if you pay attention where the drag is on the climb. I think (haven't climbed much recently going by memory) the higher the drag is the harder it is to feel the amount of the climbers movement given the same amount of drag. Not sure why.

Do climbing schools or any of the books teach this? I don't remember seeing this consistently. I always do a check even if I "know" what the results are going to be. It's harder for me to forget to do things I always do then try to remember to do them when I need them.

Not trying to rag to much was the other second? (one double on a lead) spotting? Also not a bad idea when things get stretchy.

Hope this post isn't stupid because it's too basic. I'm really out of the loop about the currents state of noobs to intermediate climbers. Mostly be climbing with "old/middle age farts" the times I've gotten out over the last few years.

Peace

David

I'm not sure I understand how rope elongation came into play here. Given the part I highlighted above in particular.

I'm not sure I understand how rope elongation came into play here. Given the part I highlighted above in particular.

Also, It should be pointed out that a single strand of half (double) has, on average, no more static elongation than a single strand of single rope. Maximum allowed for certification for half is 12% and 10% for singles. Even though 12% is allowed for half ropes the average on the market is 10% or less. My point being that, in general. half ropes have little if any more elongation than singles ropes.

Anyway, my friend came off and watching the rope and my friend, it looked as if the belayer (who had set up the belay using an autoblock) let her zing through the belay device. My friend hit the ground at what looked like full force, as if she was not roped up at all. She landed on her tail bone and although it's not broken, it's mighty sore and really limiting her ability to get around.

Gblauer says "it looked as if" the belayer dropped the climber. I think the implication was that the belayer did not let the rope slip; only that the resulting fall was comparable.

From personal experience I've found that some autobloc devices don't work very well with half ropes and even worse with twins.