FTW!

GO

Heh.

I meant both by summoning Jake, and by turning the page.

GO

i think age has to have something to do with any assessment of this. i've only been climbing for a year and can grovel up 5.10s, but figure that's not the end of the world cos i started when i was 30. if i was 16, however, that might be rubbish. hell, i've seen 12 or 13 year olds cruise up harder stuff than i've ever tried and i figure that strength to weight ratio has to have something to do with that.

meh.

steve

For what it is worth:
My judgement, as an out of towner, of SLC gym grades is that they grade boulder problems pretty stiff compared the gyms here on the east coast (almost feel comparable to what little bouldering I've done outside) but the routes at Momentum and Rockreation are soft. I've climbed harder by a number grade at both of those gyms than I have outside. My local gym seems to be just the opposite - soft bouldering and pretty stiff routes. So yes, indoor grades don't mean anything, but some (me included) like having them as goals over the winter. All that being said, I do think both of those gyms are great.

So? Gym climbing is harder. Just ask Angry.

When I was 17, I'd swagger up to a rock and thrash my way up whatever. I'd push myself way out of my element, gambling on having no consequences.

Now, I'm 33, and if I can't do it in a relaxed style, in control, it's just not right. I had to downgrade myself, and relearn some of the easier grades, to learn how to climb them in control, conciously, without constantly gambling on the unknown risks.

I am fortunate enough to live within 20 minutes of Little and Big Cottonwood Canyons in Utah and I was climbing there 2 or 3 times a week

Nah, trad 5.12 existed before sports climbing existed.

JFTPTFTW!!!

Oh, I got it. Hence, "heh". The who recs/disses who on rc.knob thing would be a funny thread. Would anybody remain standing in the end?

/retrobolts LamontagnedeGatineau's project, flashes it, then sprays about it on 8a.nu

First: I never posted anything on 8a.nu: I couldn't care less about the ego trip of the site.
Second: Retro-bolting is like smearing a mustache on the Mona Lisa. It sucks. If you don't have the balls to climb it in the the same style as one how opened it, leave it alone: There are lots of other sport climbs and there are lots of other climbers who may respect it as is.

The gym is sick.

Anyone who hasn't sent Brothers in Arms can't rebut (that's a new rule I just made, it's totally sweet).

Okay, well since I fell all over BIA just seconding it!!! I won't try to rebut your statement that gym climbing is the shit.

Instead, I'll take that as a given, and remind you that I believe we have established that I was once a stronger gym-weenie than you have ever been. So, what do I win? How about an oversized pink fluffy chalk bag? Seems about right.

GO

Not everyone wants to put the effort, mental or physical, into doing it.

Spray spray spray spray.

Some people climb hard right away, some people work their way up slowly. Some people never get there period.

Personally, I don't care which route folks take, but the little pissants who spray about it get on my nerves.

I don't climb 5.12, and I've been loosely in the sport for over 15 years.

I have no interest in just making moves on short 50' routes.

I prefer remote crags, I prefer multi-pitch, and I prefer gear placements to bolts (although I love bolt anchors....)

Does this answer some of your question yet? Grades are subjective. Good for you, you can make dynamic and powerful moves in highly controlled environments.

I'll still bet that you'd shit your pants on some of the backcountry 5.6/5.7's that I've done. It's just less easy to define the skill-set I've had to build to chase my dream.

And yes, I'd like to climb 5.12. But if I can't do it 300'+ up, on gear, in 80 mph wind gusts, with terrible rope drag, in a location where an ankle-break might spell real tragedy, after hiking 60 lbs. of gear in on the bushwhack, it's just a meaningless number.

I can do 5.12 moves in a gym. I climb about 5.7-5.9 "way out there".

And I'm guessing that you're a little younger than I, perhaps not with kiddos, career, house payments.

If that's the case, you're in a good position to invest in the sport and push limits. Good luck.