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scottek67
Sep 8, 2009, 8:22 AM
Post #26 of 63
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climbingfish
Sep 8, 2009, 9:07 AM
Post #27 of 63
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Is there anybody have experience to establish new routes in a quarry? i think currently it's the key problem that if we can establish new routes in a QUARRY, especially in the quarries which were dynamited (10 years) before, nomatter yes or no, WHY? HOW? I'm a friend of Simon, i know he worked so hard for establishing new routes,but also face so many difficulties for establishing these new routes, anyway, he do this not for himself but for all climbers in Suzhou even in China. We know it's not a simple question can be replied as "yes" or "no", so please, tell us your reasons, share your knowledge with us, maybe share some information you have. And if you need some information for ananalysis the situation, just tell us. Thanks~
(This post was edited by climbingfish on Sep 8, 2009, 9:25 AM)
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USnavy
Sep 8, 2009, 9:42 AM
Post #28 of 63
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jt512 wrote: USnavy wrote: There is no nice way to put this so I am going to be frank. You don’t know what you are doing. The first thing that tipped me off was the fact you were bolting in climbing shoes. You're a fucking idiot. Jay Edit: GUd (and with my own photo!) Are you serious...? It’s completely beyond me as to how you could be so dumb as to think I was being serious in that part of the post... I have rap bolted numerous routes in climbing shoes as have others I know. I thought it was clear as day that I was kidding. Apparently not to some... Clearly, what shoes someone is wearing is irrelevant to their bolting experience. Clearly, I was being extremely sarcastic as I was in other parts of my post…
(This post was edited by USnavy on Sep 8, 2009, 10:08 AM)
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USnavy
Sep 8, 2009, 10:15 AM
Post #29 of 63
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simonbrown wrote: Can i use the long runner? And the turn of the rock is not sharp. You know the route is not long.And if i set the top at right side, the route difficlut will down. Below the bolt#4, the difficluty of every move is average about 5.12a. If the route direction is right, it's easy more. And the right side is a hillside. So i set this traversing. First route is not long. The rope is enough. When i leading climbed to the top, when do the sencond times figure eight to my harness, i can drop long enough rope to land, and the belayer can make this segment rope sense enough to control the swing when i got the first quickdraw. If i didn't do this, the swing happened in a flat plane. I dont think it's dangerous. About the "The second to last bolt in your first set of pictures is also not well placed. With the draw you have clipped in the pic, the bottom biner is resting a few inches inwards of a ledge. This means if a climber falls the rope will run 90 degrees over the ledge, 90 degrees upwards then 180 degrees back downwards. This will create for a harder catch, more drag, and it will annihilate your rope since it will be forcing the rope to run over the ledge at such a serious angle. " I post move pics here. And finally, what about the quarry rock zon? Yes you can use a longer draw. But that bolt forces someone to use a longer draw. That is not a good thing. It’s better to place the bolt in a position (when possible) to allow the climber to use a standard length draw. As far as the time constraint goes, take the time to do it right. If you don’t have enough time to do it one day, come back another day. You don’t have to finish bolting a route in one day.
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climbingtrash
Sep 8, 2009, 11:20 AM
Post #30 of 63
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USnavy wrote: jt512 wrote: USnavy wrote: There is no nice way to put this so I am going to be frank. You don’t know what you are doing. The first thing that tipped me off was the fact you were bolting in climbing shoes. You're a fucking idiot. Jay Edit: GUd (and with my own photo!) Are you serious...? It’s completely beyond me as to how you could be so dumb as to think I was being serious in that part of the post... I have rap bolted numerous routes in climbing shoes as have others I know. I thought it was clear as day that I was kidding. Apparently not to some... Clearly, what shoes someone is wearing is irrelevant to their bolting experience. Clearly, I was being extremely sarcastic as I was in other parts of my post… Judging by the response got, your sarcasm was hardly clear...but practice makes perfect.
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rockandlice
Sep 8, 2009, 12:20 PM
Post #31 of 63
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climbingtrash wrote: USnavy wrote: jt512 wrote: USnavy wrote: There is no nice way to put this so I am going to be frank. You don’t know what you are doing. The first thing that tipped me off was the fact you were bolting in climbing shoes. You're a fucking idiot. Jay Edit: GUd (and with my own photo!) Are you serious...? It’s completely beyond me as to how you could be so dumb as to think I was being serious in that part of the post... I have rap bolted numerous routes in climbing shoes as have others I know. I thought it was clear as day that I was kidding. Apparently not to some... Clearly, what shoes someone is wearing is irrelevant to their bolting experience. Clearly, I was being extremely sarcastic as I was in other parts of my post… Judging by the response got, your sarcasm was hardly clear...but practice makes perfect. He could also use a little practice back pedaling.
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joeforte
Sep 8, 2009, 12:25 PM
Post #32 of 63
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zchandran wrote: Ok, I'm new to trad and I don't even know who that is in the picture, but I'm going to ask the first dumb noob question that came to mind, because I'm missing something: Why is he bolting this route when the crack looks like it's so easy to protect? From what I recall, the column of rock that makes up the left side of the crack is hollow. A cam could easily dislodge it, and not many people know the value of a hex to carry them anymore. Hell, maybe even a hex would dislodge it, but by bolting the rock to the right, you would still be safe if it the column collapsed... as long as your belayer isn't crushed!
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Costa
Sep 8, 2009, 1:45 PM
Post #33 of 63
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rockandlice wrote: climbingtrash wrote: USnavy wrote: jt512 wrote: USnavy wrote: There is no nice way to put this so I am going to be frank. You don’t know what you are doing. The first thing that tipped me off was the fact you were bolting in climbing shoes. You're a fucking idiot. Jay Edit: GUd (and with my own photo!) Are you serious...? It’s completely beyond me as to how you could be so dumb as to think I was being serious in that part of the post... I have rap bolted numerous routes in climbing shoes as have others I know. I thought it was clear as day that I was kidding. Apparently not to some... Clearly, what shoes someone is wearing is irrelevant to their bolting experience. Clearly, I was being extremely sarcastic as I was in other parts of my post… Judging by the response got, your sarcasm was hardly clear...but practice makes perfect. He could also use a little practice back pedaling. HAHAHA hit the nail on the head
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zchandran
Sep 8, 2009, 1:59 PM
Post #34 of 63
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joeforte wrote: zchandran wrote: Ok, I'm new to trad and I don't even know who that is in the picture, but I'm going to ask the first dumb noob question that came to mind, because I'm missing something: Why is he bolting this route when the crack looks like it's so easy to protect? From what I recall, the column of rock that makes up the left side of the crack is hollow. A cam could easily dislodge it, and not many people know the value of a hex to carry them anymore. Hell, maybe even a hex would dislodge it, but by bolting the rock to the right, you would still be safe if it the column collapsed... as long as your belayer isn't crushed! Thanks, I figured there was some reason like that...
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dan2see
Sep 8, 2009, 2:14 PM
Post #35 of 63
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I assume all those cracks are caused by structural damage from blasting. You can clean it somewhat by knocking off the looser blocks. But shouldn't you assume that the rock in those quarries is generally unsafe for bolts? Give up on trusting the bolts, and give up on making people lead them. So you should find a way to toprope everything. Find a way to build toprope anchors: maybe you can bolt it above the edge. Then, to climb, you walk up and drop a toprope, and everybody climbs that way. No leading, but everybody climbs.
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majid_sabet
Sep 8, 2009, 4:43 PM
Post #36 of 63
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simonbrown wrote: majid_sabet wrote: what is the point of bolting a 10 feet high rock when most bouldering rate can climb it with a silly pad below them ? I don't think so. First this route is 7 meters high not 10feet. I know some boulder problem is even 15 meters high. But you know climbing is not popular in China and so many rookie don't have enough experience to jump from so high position especially for girls. It's not every Chinese can KongFu. If not bolted, they will not climb maybe. I am not sure the quarry. I set more and more bolts in the wall. If some climber think it's too many bolts, I think you can use some of them. It's your choose. Thanks. Welcome to China. An amazing place. I see a bolt right next to a crack. is that right ? or may be my eyes are going bad
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simonbrown
Sep 8, 2009, 8:10 PM
Post #37 of 63
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majid_sabet wrote: simonbrown wrote: majid_sabet wrote: what is the point of bolting a 10 feet high rock when most bouldering rate can climb it with a silly pad below them ? I don't think so. First this route is 7 meters high not 10feet. I know some boulder problem is even 15 meters high. But you know climbing is not popular in China and so many rookie don't have enough experience to jump from so high position especially for girls. It's not every Chinese can KongFu. If not bolted, they will not climb maybe. I am not sure the quarry. I set more and more bolts in the wall. If some climber think it's too many bolts, I think you can use some of them. It's your choose. Thanks. Welcome to China. An amazing place. I see a bolt right next to a crack. is that right ? or may be my eyes are going bad I post a photo here. Which one? Thank you very much sir.
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majid_sabet
Sep 9, 2009, 12:21 AM
Post #38 of 63
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simonbrown wrote: majid_sabet wrote: simonbrown wrote: majid_sabet wrote: what is the point of bolting a 10 feet high rock when most bouldering rate can climb it with a silly pad below them ? I don't think so. First this route is 7 meters high not 10feet. I know some boulder problem is even 15 meters high. But you know climbing is not popular in China and so many rookie don't have enough experience to jump from so high position especially for girls. It's not every Chinese can KongFu. If not bolted, they will not climb maybe. I am not sure the quarry. I set more and more bolts in the wall. If some climber think it's too many bolts, I think you can use some of them. It's your choose. Thanks. Welcome to China. An amazing place. I see a bolt right next to a crack. is that right ? or may be my eyes are going bad I post a photo here. Which one? Thank you very much sir. What is this dude anchored to and what is that crack next to his bolt ? http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ent;postatt_id=4017; is that a crack or what ? http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ent;postatt_id=4015;
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Sep 9, 2009, 12:22 AM)
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simonbrown
Sep 9, 2009, 3:39 AM
Post #39 of 63
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majid_sabet wrote: simonbrown wrote: majid_sabet wrote: simonbrown wrote: majid_sabet wrote: what is the point of bolting a 10 feet high rock when most bouldering rate can climb it with a silly pad below them ? I don't think so. First this route is 7 meters high not 10feet. I know some boulder problem is even 15 meters high. But you know climbing is not popular in China and so many rookie don't have enough experience to jump from so high position especially for girls. It's not every Chinese can KongFu. If not bolted, they will not climb maybe. I am not sure the quarry. I set more and more bolts in the wall. If some climber think it's too many bolts, I think you can use some of them. It's your choose. Thanks. Welcome to China. An amazing place. I see a bolt right next to a crack. is that right ? or may be my eyes are going bad I post a photo here. Which one? Thank you very much sir. What is this dude anchored to and what is that crack next to his bolt ? http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ent;postatt_id=4017; is that a crack or what ? http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ent;postatt_id=4015; Oh man, We are not discussing the same route. The second route is above 10meter high. It's not finished. It's made for a movie. I will clean it and rebuild it before open this route. USnavy tell me very clear how to do it. I will post photoes again after i rebuild this route. Thanks Majid.
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jt512
Sep 9, 2009, 3:49 AM
Post #40 of 63
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simonbrown wrote: USnavy tell me very clear how to do it. Thanks Majid. I'm hoping that this is a exquisitely elaborate troll. Jay
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USnavy
Sep 9, 2009, 4:05 AM
Post #41 of 63
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majid_sabet wrote: simonbrown wrote: majid_sabet wrote: what is the point of bolting a 10 feet high rock when most bouldering rate can climb it with a silly pad below them ? I don't think so. First this route is 7 meters high not 10feet. I know some boulder problem is even 15 meters high. But you know climbing is not popular in China and so many rookie don't have enough experience to jump from so high position especially for girls. It's not every Chinese can KongFu. If not bolted, they will not climb maybe. I am not sure the quarry. I set more and more bolts in the wall. If some climber think it's too many bolts, I think you can use some of them. It's your choose. Thanks. Welcome to China. An amazing place. I see a bolt right next to a crack. is that right ? or may be my eyes are going bad Yes, thank you for joining us. I brought that up 20 posts ago.
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USnavy
Sep 9, 2009, 4:15 AM
Post #42 of 63
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simonbrown wrote: hi, i am troubling in it. This zone donot have the pure nature crag. But there are about 30 quarries. And these quarries were abandened at 10 years ago and all are grinite rock. I try to making two new routes at last two week. Here is some photoes. The difficult are marked at 5.12a and 5.10c. Should i make new routes or stop it and closed the route? Help me plz. Thanks all What type of rock are you bolting and how hard is it? Once again I would like to reinitiate that the bolts you are using are ONLY for hard rock and they can fail under bodyweight alone in soft rock.
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the_leech
Sep 9, 2009, 4:15 AM
Post #43 of 63
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jt512 wrote: simonbrown wrote: USnavy tell me very clear how to do it. Thanks Majid. I'm hoping that this is a exquisitely elaborate troll. Jay It is impressive, isn't it?
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majid_sabet
Sep 9, 2009, 4:27 AM
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simonbrown wrote: majid_sabet wrote: simonbrown wrote: majid_sabet wrote: simonbrown wrote: majid_sabet wrote: what is the point of bolting a 10 feet high rock when most bouldering rate can climb it with a silly pad below them ? I don't think so. First this route is 7 meters high not 10feet. I know some boulder problem is even 15 meters high. But you know climbing is not popular in China and so many rookie don't have enough experience to jump from so high position especially for girls. It's not every Chinese can KongFu. If not bolted, they will not climb maybe. I am not sure the quarry. I set more and more bolts in the wall. If some climber think it's too many bolts, I think you can use some of them. It's your choose. Thanks. Welcome to China. An amazing place. I see a bolt right next to a crack. is that right ? or may be my eyes are going bad I post a photo here. Which one? Thank you very much sir. What is this dude anchored to and what is that crack next to his bolt ? http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ent;postatt_id=4017; is that a crack or what ? http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ent;postatt_id=4015; Oh man, We are not discussing the same route. The second route is above 10meter high. It's not finished. It's made for a movie. I will clean it and rebuild it before open this route. USnavy tell me very clear how to do it. I will post photoes again after i rebuild this route. Thanks Majid. do not listen to USNAVY, he will get you killed. he knows nothing about bolting. in fact, he was just here few post ago asking people how to bolt himself.
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arrow
Sep 9, 2009, 4:47 AM
Post #45 of 63
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USnavy wrote: simonbrown wrote: hi, i am troubling in it. This zone donot have the pure nature crag. But there are about 30 quarries. And these quarries were abandened at 10 years ago and all are grinite rock. I try to making two new routes at last two week. Here is some photoes. The difficult are marked at 5.12a and 5.10c. Should i make new routes or stop it and closed the route? Help me plz. Thanks all What type of rock are you bolting and how hard is it? Once again I would like to reinitiate that the bolts you are using are ONLY for hard rock and they can fail under bodyweight alone in soft rock. USnavy, please don't reinitiate anymore bullshit like this. Why do you think these bolts would fail under bodyweight alone? And why do you think shear strength would fluctuate between soft or hard rock?
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simonbrown
Sep 9, 2009, 5:53 AM
Post #46 of 63
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arrow wrote: USnavy wrote: simonbrown wrote: hi, i am troubling in it. This zone donot have the pure nature crag. But there are about 30 quarries. And these quarries were abandened at 10 years ago and all are grinite rock. I try to making two new routes at last two week. Here is some photoes. The difficult are marked at 5.12a and 5.10c. Should i make new routes or stop it and closed the route? Help me plz. Thanks all What type of rock are you bolting and how hard is it? Once again I would like to reinitiate that the bolts you are using are ONLY for hard rock and they can fail under bodyweight alone in soft rock. USnavy, please don't reinitiate anymore bullshit like this. Why do you think these bolts would fail under bodyweight alone? And why do you think shear strength would fluctuate between soft or hard rock? About the two routes, i and my parter have climbed it. And fall myself from one quickdraw to next draw. No warries. I have another 2 protections, toprope and butterfly knot to other hanger, to belay. The rock in these zone is very hard. It's granite. I refer to the information about granite. Granite is hard above 1000KG/cm2 = 10KN/cm2 = 140K BPI, not 6000 bpi. Look at the rock, so flat. I think only hardest rock will be so flat after blasting.
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USnavy
Sep 9, 2009, 6:47 AM
Post #47 of 63
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arrow wrote: USnavy wrote: simonbrown wrote: hi, i am troubling in it. This zone don’t have the pure nature crag. But there are about 30 quarries. And these quarries were abandoned at 10 years ago and all are granite rock. I try to making two new routes at last two week. Here is some photos. The difficult are marked at 5.12a and 5.10c. Should i make new routes or stop it and closed the route? Help me plz. Thanks all What type of rock are you bolting and how hard is it? Once again I would like to reinitiate that the bolts you are using are ONLY for hard rock and they can fail under bodyweight alone in soft rock. And why do you think shear strength would fluctuate between soft or hard rock? ummm... of course the pull out strength of a bolt will be lower in soft (weak) rock. That’s common knowledge... Look at the strength values chart of any expansion bolt on the market. They give values for low compressive strength (soft), medium compressive strength (medium) and high compressive strength (hard) concrete. The strength values for soft rock is ALWAYS [much] lower than the strength values for hard rock except in cases where a very long bolt is being used. As far as the bolt pulling on body weight in soft rock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzuhyi76UqE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQt4AbQmJjE The bolts in those videos are very similar to what the OP is using.
(This post was edited by USnavy on Sep 9, 2009, 10:06 AM)
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bergbryce
Sep 9, 2009, 7:05 AM
Post #48 of 63
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Yes, and he stated in his first or second post that the rock was granite. There are lots of old quarries with sport routes in them. Seems like a decent use of an otherwise nearly useless area.
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baijiu
Sep 9, 2009, 9:53 AM
Post #49 of 63
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Simon, keep up the good work! Anybody that is helping to develop climbing within China deserves praise. A few concerns though... As you climb and route set more, you will develop an eye for finding great lines. The traverse at the top is not the best idea. I have seen too many accidents/injuries with this same scenario. although this is sport climbing and relatively safe, most people and great lines generally go up and not across. Most people like to feel secure and safe on the rock so an extra bolt here and there is no biggie. You just don't need one every .75 meter. And as a Chinese climber i think you probably enjoy flying through the air time and time again. anyway, the crags i have seen in yangshuo are very safe in my opinion. Laowei's feel they are over bolted but then again it is a safety issue. I have just bolted 10 routes here and most of the time the bolts are roughly 1.5 to 2.0 meters apart, some more some less depending on the fall. use good judgment. I believe a good trad line should stay a trad line, however you are in a quarry. Even if the rock seems solid, don't trust it. (yes, even granite) I find no ethical reason to say 'no bolting in quarries' cause truly they have been disturbed already by far greater forces than any drill and wrench could provide. Bolt the quarries with dignity and know you are increasing the outdoor value of such a denuded place. But please use good judgement and do not bolt near cracks, flakes, or any other hazard except when there is no other option. The largest issue i see here is the access. Make sure you know who is leasing the land and they are aware of your activities. In Yangshuo, we've had too many controversies over ownership/access/money to not pay future heed to these issues. Climbing will become more popular in China, however it will always be controlled by the government. Take the neccessary steps now so your project does not get cancelled. We have found the government supports climbing development; they just want to know what is happening. Finally, i invite you to make the journey down south and let's go bolt some routes together on some sick limestone. Peace.
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bennydh
Sep 9, 2009, 10:06 AM
Post #50 of 63
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the_leech wrote: jt512 wrote: simonbrown wrote: USnavy tell me very clear how to do it. Thanks Majid. I'm hoping that this is a exquisitely elaborate troll. Jay It is impressive, isn't it? I'm speechless. People are going to get lockjaw reading this thread.
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