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orestes1724
Feb 4, 2002, 12:29 AM
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i dont really have a religon, so i would keep climbing.
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suprepopps
Feb 4, 2002, 1:29 PM
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I choose both because that is my faith.
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missedyno
Feb 4, 2002, 11:06 PM
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well personally i was raised in a very religious household. church 3 times a week.
but when i started climbing, i had to choose... weekends at the crag, or weekends at church. i gladly accepted climbing.
each person's opinion is just that - their own. that's the beauty of it. practice your religion if you want to, go to church if you want to, for crying out loud builder the church if it makes you feel closer to god/God.
just be happy and don't hurt anyone, okay?
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blake_wrinn
Jul 23, 2005, 1:39 AM
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I'd have to say i agree completley with metoliusminchkin on this. 100% Thank you so much for writing what you did! Don't think i could have said it better.
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jt512
Jul 23, 2005, 1:42 AM
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In reply to: Assuming you had to choose one and cant have both, would you give up your religion/faith(assuming you have one) or would you give up climbing? Kind of makes you think doesn't it?
Kind of makes me think you're a moron.
-Jay
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gary996
Jul 23, 2005, 3:39 AM
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you make your own faith so climbing wins every time
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dancefax
Jul 23, 2005, 3:55 AM
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I completely agree with Jules.
Judaism=approx 2500yrs old
Christendom=approx 2000yrs old
Islam=approx1600yrs old
Buddism=?
Hinduism=?
etc etc...
Lets face it humans just made them up for political/war control purposes plus to explain the unexplainable acts of nature.
There is no god there never has been and there never will be, no devils, angels, saints, miracles or any other imagining, just plain old nature and the universe.
The sooner humans drop these legacy belief systems the better we will all be.
It saddens me to see so many people brainwashed and deluded, I just wish there was a proper international forum on discussing all the different religions so that people can get a proper perspective on their "faith". after all they cant all have the one and only true faith/god can they???
Climbing is good enough for me!
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kevinatlarge
Jul 23, 2005, 4:15 AM
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Dancefax, dude I am an athiest, and you're giving me a bad name. even if you believe what you say, dont trash someone else's beliefs.
Dancefax said:
"The sooner humans drop these legacy belief systems the better we will all be"
I'm not so sure about this. faith can make people do some amazing things for the community.
To answer the thread question: I live to climb, and climbing makes me live, it's a part of me, and it's not going anywhere.
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strokies
Jul 23, 2005, 4:38 AM
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I would give up denominations and church for sure, but not God. I agree that there is brainwashing going on, people trying to get others to go with ''their'' point of view to make themselves feel important/right. No matter the reason, RELIGION isn't so great, but GOD is. I feel closest to God when I am in nature, climbing, hiking, living away from religion the busi-ness of everyday life.
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bodyboarder
Jul 23, 2005, 4:56 AM
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Well what does the word faith mean. i'mnotgonna look it up because i'mlazy but to me it seems to mean believing something without solid proof like god this statemet (not directedat anyone in particular) "you know like where did it all come from, there has to be a god" is a "faith"statement just like all that stuff about jesus.(no offense to christians) now it seems to me that religions themselves came up with the idea of faith as a fail safe for people whomight question that religion "well i dont see any proof of your god...." ....... "thats because you dont have faith, god is testing us blahblahblah you have to have faith otherwise you dont get the tresure or whatever" well now that we know that faith doesnt exist and just knowledge how do we know that our knowledge is real ..... Lets see what quatum physics has to say about it.....well quantum physics wtf? "well jason those molocules you see that make up all the things like your rocks and your cheese danish are actually everywhere all the time..." so why do i see them where i do " well thats because you and everyone else have colectively chosen to see that cheese danish right there based on a standardized way of thought" wait so are you implying that everyone is god constantly creating the world around us out of infinity? "well sort of jason, i think you're beging to get the point" so whats the dealwith faith then quantum physics? " well it's completely irrelevant jason my boy just live your life and experience things with others there is no goal and no path but there also isn't the nothing that the atheists talk about, theres everything Thats the point!" wow awesome, thanks quantumphysics you're the coolest.
ok sorry i went off on a wierd kinda thing there someone might get my point i'm not very good with words....hehe
basically what i'mtrying tosay is iwould choose climbing......and surfing
Jason
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frawg
Jul 23, 2005, 6:50 AM
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I heard hell has some good boulders
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iclimbtoo
Jul 23, 2005, 7:03 AM
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I think that Anatoli Boukreev said it best in Above the Clouds...
"The mountains are not stadiums in which I satisfy my ambitions to achieve. They are my cathedrals; the houses of my religion."
One not need be seperated from the other.
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korrigan
Jul 23, 2005, 9:28 AM
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In reply to: Judaism=approx 2500yrs old Christendom=approx 2000yrs old Islam=approx1600yrs old Buddism=? Hinduism=? etc etc...
Buddhism is 2500 years old, and Hinduism has no founder, but may be over 5000 years old.
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flipnfall
Jul 23, 2005, 11:39 AM
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No doubt I would keep my faith. We believe that any sacrifices we make now are rewarded in the end with something even better than what we give up. Imagine that--is there something better than climbing? How great my reward would be! :wink:
GT
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gunksgoer
Jul 23, 2005, 12:17 PM
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Right now id honestly choose climbing. Im young and rebelious though :roll: so my views might change when im older.
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lightningwolf73
Jul 23, 2005, 3:02 PM
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kevinatlarge
just remember that people can do some pretty messed up stuff in the name of religion, too. There are many examples of this throughout history.
And while I agree that people shouldn't trahs other people beliefs, I also don't think people should try and convert others to their way of thinking. As an athiest, I find it incredibly offensive to have people try and convert me. I know they mean well, but think about it; I've thought about what i believe, and i've made my decision. When someone tries to convert me, you are saying that I'm wrong and you are right. No one has been able to make a good case to me, except for science. I need proof, and religion has never been able to provide any.
Finally, someone asked posed the question of who created the big bang. This is a valid question, and one that science has yet to answer. But if you say that god created the universe, who created god? Saying that god just is, is equivalnt to saying that the big bang just happened.
edited to say: If it isn't clear, I would choose climbing.
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climbingbetty22
Jul 23, 2005, 3:46 PM
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This thread is so a can of worms, I can't believe I'm jumping in...But some thoughts...
-People have referenced the 'center of the brain that deals in religious belief.' Its in the right temporal lobe for reference. You wouldn't have to cut that part of the brain out to remove someone's belief in a higher power. Interesting note: that is the same area of the brain from each feel empathy for other human beings. Studies on children have shown this area of the brain to be more heavily myelinated (meaning its used more) in females then maled. Presumably because it is socially acceptable for them to cry for others and experience emotion. The applicable part of that is that anytime you decrease use of an area of the brain, you relatively decrease the amount of myelin on the axons going to that part, meaning that area of the brain gets used less.
-I grew up in church. Independent Baptists- we were there at least 2x a week. I no longer consider myself 'religious' for several reasons. I know too many Christians. Many are the biggest hyprocrites I know. I chose to be real and honest about who I am from the get go. Secondly, there really is a degree of brainwashing involved. It was Marx I believe who said "Religion is the opiate of the masses." The one thing that always got me is how many intelligent, independent, capable women willingly accepted a subservient position for themselves because of one misquoted line in the Bible. If that ain't brain-washing, I don't know what is. I could go on, but I won't
- Another thing I thought I had was- who says heaven is a great place? Great for whom? Granted I don't want to go to "Hell" but I don't want to be in this Heaven place either. The idea of living forever, conscious in another time and place freaks me out. I really would prefer that when the time comes, I just die, let my molecules return to the earth, let my sould get recycled to someone else. I'd rather have that.
-Debate the creation of the universe in this thread all you want, but really in the end, does it really matter? We are all still here regardless, does whether or not the world was created or we evolved really going to change your day-to-day decisions? I highly doubt it, so who cares? ANd for whoever said it like 7 pages ago, I liked reading the "it takes more faith to believe in evolution." I love that one! I remember it fondly from the days when I brain-washed by the Church.
Just some thoughts I had from readng the thread. I'm not going to 'choose' because as has already been pointed out, its a dumb question because it would never happen. But if you're asking if I'm going to go to church on a gorgeous sunny, 70-degree, not a cloud in the sky kind of day or go climbing- I'M GOING CLIMBING!
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ein_berliner
Jul 23, 2005, 3:52 PM
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I don't know why i'm surprised when I see 7 pages of replies to topics like these, but I always am...
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crackaddict
Jul 23, 2005, 4:32 PM
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Wow this thread is old. January 2002 was the first post. I thought I steped back in time when I saw some of the names posting. Some of these folks are'nt on this site much anymore.
God wins on this one if you belive in Him.
Other relgions will win if thats what you belive.
And climbing will win if you don't have a religion.
Easy enough.
O.K.
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ikefromla
Jul 23, 2005, 5:26 PM
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In reply to: This thread is so a can of worms, I can't believe I'm jumping in...
i'm not even gonna touch this one.
climbing.
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iclimbtoo
Jul 24, 2005, 6:47 AM
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In reply to: a 3.5-year-old can of worms resurrected by a n00b with 4 posts. I'm not even gonna touch this one.
you just did.
Plus, who cares how old this particular topic is...it's interesting none the less. I give props for resurrecting it (no pun intended). Granted, there are some issues on this site that just need to be shot down once and for all, but this one is good, and I'm glad someone dug through the archives to bring it out rather than post a 100 new and identical posts. When something like that happens it is a GOOD thing. Some of you act like you've been around for so long that you've heard everything and seen everything and are a grizzled old rc.com veteran. Well, until you have your own show on Comedy Central, keep it down because there's a lot of people out there that are more interesting to listen to then yourselves. So, if you don't like the fact that this topic has been resurfaced, then move on and spend your time on something else rather than trashing someones legit curiosity for still having the courage to speak out rather than the fear of being bashed by the glazen-eyed freaks that supposedly know what topics are "good" and those which are "bad" on this site.
Edited to specifically clarify naivety in previous posts.
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coopershawk
Jul 24, 2005, 2:58 PM
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What if you're a practitioner of Zen? Then climbing becomes your faith. What more empties your mind and dials you into the moment like climbing, or zazen? The two seem to go hand in hand.
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pinktricam
Jul 24, 2005, 3:05 PM
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I choose...(drum roll, please)...Faith.
Yep, if you don't believe in Jesus...go to hell.
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dirtineye
Jul 24, 2005, 3:26 PM
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In reply to: I choose...(drum roll, please)...Faith. Yep, if you don't believe in Jesus...go to hell.
Yeah Pinky, heaven will be such a wonderful place with all those murders, rapists and serial killers who found god in prison. I'll bet they are just going to be wonderful folks once they get to heaven.
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