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vivalargo
May 16, 2006, 2:13 AM
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You can't help but notice that some dog owners are very inflamatory and reactionary that restraints on their or any dog's freedom be discussed. You are a bad man for even suggesting such and you should burn in hell.
Huh? A dog is an intrusion into any human space. I welcome the intrusion of my dog into my space (most of the time), but I know others don't (he's a huge Rot), and I won't force him on others who might have a problem (like fear) only to say they have no right to feeling that way. That's to grant a dog more rights than a human being, insisting that you either have to enjoy my dog or ignore him or just bugger off. I would wager to say that anyone who does so has a thorny time in human relations, and has some work to do on that account. It's also an earmark of a character disorder to always blame the other person (not the other dog) for any conflicts, and with this population (which many psychologists refuse to even deal with) there's no helping them because they don't have a problem--you do.
JL
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sbaclimber
May 16, 2006, 2:15 AM
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In reply to: Not into kicking dogs. also not into being threatened. most times when a dog has threatened me at a cliff the owner is several pitches up and the dog won't let me up the trail as the owners packs are on the trail. Other times the dog is on leash and walking with the owner but goes totaly ballistic when you meet up on the trail. It is A PITA!! If I pulled that crap I would be in jail but because it is a nice poochy poo it is ok :roll:
A rottweiler on the other hand.......never! I have known quite a number of rottweilers in my time, almost all of them wonderful dogs, but I would not want to piss one of them off!
And austinclmbr, I realise you either aren't being serious when you say, 'kick him', or you honestly think he won't bite back, but imo you are playing with fire. All it takes is one little nip by your (big) dog, and you may find yourself being sued and/or Zane getting one last jab with a needle. I am not saying it would be Zane's fault, just yours for assuming certain things, and the other person's for being stupid enough to take you at your word.
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austinclmbr
May 16, 2006, 2:33 AM
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Lets just say I have light feelings about this issue. Truth be told, Zane is a trained rescue dog, and if anyone ever kicked him, They would have to deal with me (after they delt with him)
Fact of the matter is that daogs are and most likely will always be a part of craging. But mine is very well trained and always tied up out of the way. And I really fdo mean out of the way, usually about 25 feet from any trail or wall.
Now, this issue to me is a lot like kids in a restaurant. I don't mind them so long as they are behaving. But being a parent and a restaurant manager I find myself having to tell parents to SHUT THIER KIDS UP more often than having to ask dog owners to keep them off my rope. I agree compleetly that dogs and kids can be a nussence, but these are public places and if the ethics of the place are being folowed and your annoyed, go somewhere else. Are you gonna go to Chucky cheese for a romantic dinner for two? I don;t go to private land where there are no leesh laws, then bitch about the dogs, matter of fact I just deal with it, when normally I would say something at a public park where there ARE leesh laws. And if that doesnt work I call the ranger just as a table or server would come to me to complain about loud kids.
Sorry I just had to poke a little fun, it all seems so simple, and I have no idea what starting a thred like this is going to achieve.
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nola_angie
May 16, 2006, 3:07 AM
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Yeah, it's kinda annoying, but if you tie your dog up, and keep him outta the way, AND he's well behaved, what the big deal?
Personally, I've met a few of the 'under 10 years old' human variety that should have this philo. applied to them.... :wink:
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fulton
May 16, 2006, 3:08 AM
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Most dog nay-sayers are cowards. Everyone complains about dogs online. I seldom ever see dog-owners confronted at the crag by discontented climbers.
Alot of dog owners are just morons who want a friend that thinks on their level: hence 'dogs at the crag syndrome' is a chronic problem.
My advice to the dog-haters (I hate dogs as well) is to address the owners directly - try to start a fight if you can; try barking and spitting on the dog-owner.
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vivalargo
May 16, 2006, 3:10 AM
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"Now, this issue to me is a lot like kids in a restaurant."
Actually it's not, but a lot of people are trying to make it to where dogs and people are seen in the same light.
It's part of the social charter in all lands that we give kids slack to be kids, and that we don't start jummping all over them when they sound off and spill the milk and so forth. If we do, we're inverting the child/parent dynamic and expecting the kids to behave in a way that makes us feel good, whereas our attention should be on the needs of the kid.
When we extend this social charter to dogs, and expect or demand that others just "deal with it," we're proposing a screwy ideal in which dogs and human beings are held up basically as equals. That seems a little out of whack to me, but perfectly fine for others. Since no one is likely going to change their mind about this anytime soon, I agree that there's probably not much future in discussing it in any serious manner. It is interesting nonetheless to see how people react to the subject. It's a loaded topic for many people.
JL
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dingus
May 16, 2006, 3:23 AM
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In reply to: You can't help but notice that some dog owners are very inflamatory and reactionary that restraints on their or any dog's freedom be discussed. You are a bad man for even suggesting such and you should burn in hell.
Why, you may as well ask them to restrain their cocks!
You can't ask a red blooded FREE MAN to restrain his cock now can ya?
Cause with a lot of dudes and their killer dogs?
Compensating.
DMT
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colotopian
May 16, 2006, 3:32 AM
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I don't have a dog anymore. As a kid I had a boarder collie named Ben. He was the greatest dog.
I wanted to post on this thread to tell you all a story about climbing and pets. It might shed some light on a debate for whats appropriate at crags. I want to tell you about Erica though and not Ben. I got Erica about 4 years ago and she is the greatest to take climbing. Super low maintenance. She's not fast. She likes to poke around trees and bushes. One time she took a fall, and my friends and I thought we lost her. Nope! She's as tough as nails. She also keeps to herself, but wont back down if she's cornered.
(Ok the story) One time we even used her to anchor a small belayer belaying a bigger person. She did Great (Erica I'm talking about). She moaned a little at first but got use to it as was asleep before the climber came down. Animals are great to take to crags, they can really lighten up things, and sometimes help out. Below is a picture of Erica at one of the local crags. She's in really good shape right now! She use to be fat!
http://www.learner.org/...phics/u-z/walrus.jpg
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cracklover
May 16, 2006, 4:05 AM
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How about the poor dogs who are left alone at the base of a long multipitch climb? Damn, that sucks for them. The good ones just get sad and anxious, while the bad ones flip out and make themselves a pain for all those who come nearby.
You think your dog is fine with it. I've heard you say so. But I've seen your dog when you leave. You're wrong, your dog is not fine with it. You get a couple pitches up, where your dog can't see or hear you any more, and your dog gets increasingly confused, anxious, miserable. It's a cruel thing to do.
GO
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sketch
May 16, 2006, 2:29 PM
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Personally, I like dogs as long as they're well behaved. Most of my experiences with other people's dogs at the crag have been memorable. A few notable exceptions stand out in my mind, however. I would appreciate it if owners of aggressive/Territorial dogs either leave their pets at home or leave them tied up AWAY from the base of popular multi-pitch climbs. One day at looking glass, I arrived at the base of a very popular multi-pitch route only to find it guarded by two very-aggressive dogs tied up at the base, barking and snarling. The owner would frequently yell, "KILLER! SHUT UP! KILLER" When the dog snapped at my partner, we went and climbed something else. Thanks to all who train their dogs to be well behaved. For those who don't, please make an effort to make sure your dogs don't threaten others.
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mowz
May 16, 2006, 2:53 PM
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WTF does smoking being banned at the crags have to do with my post? You need to learn how to contextualize (sorry, I couldn't think of a monosyllabic word). I'm not saying that smoking needs to be banned at the crag. I used the analogy because I believe that it is a good one. Smokers are always talking about their rights but never keep the rights of non-smokers in mind. Non-smokers do the same thing. This is analogous (too many syllables for you?) to the dogs-at-the-crag-problem. Dog owners are too wound up thinking about their rights while non-dog owners are too involved with what they believe are their rights.
In reply to: RE: Perfect anology Smokers can smoke as long as the smoke doesn't pollute anyone else's air and they pick up their butts. People can bring dogs to the crags as long as they don't invade other people's space and they pick up the poo. If someone doesn't live up to their responsibilities address them, don't try to ban it altogether. Duh. According to the post above smokers (or at least smoking) should be banned at the crags too. Welcome to 1984. |
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madriver
May 16, 2006, 2:54 PM
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sketch wrote:
In reply to: One day at looking glass, I arrived at the base of a very popular multi-pitch route only to find it guarded by two very-aggressive dogs tied up at the base, barking and snarling. The owner would frequently yell, "KILLER! SHUT UP! KILLER" When the dog snapped at my partner, we went and climbed something else.
....route overcrowding solved eh?
....and to ALL the cat lovers out there.....my cat is a slut and I would appreciate your unwnated advances be left at home. It's bad enough dealing with dogs at the rock....mkay?
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madriver
May 16, 2006, 2:55 PM
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thank you mowz.....
love
Mad
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tradmanclimbs
May 16, 2006, 3:22 PM
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Mowz, please post more often. No need to change photos, the photo that you are useing now is fine :D
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epoch
Moderator
May 16, 2006, 3:35 PM
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I'd love to see kittens on that!!
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mowz
May 16, 2006, 9:35 PM
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Did your cat eat the Cockatoo afterwards?
Is that a Cockatoo? It looks like a bird and it also looks like it would taste great, if fried.
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shanz
May 16, 2006, 10:23 PM
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Not sure which is more funny the fact that this thread is still going, the two chicks grooving in the above pic or the fact that this thread was hijacked by cat people
I gotta get some pics tonight of my cat
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austinclmbr
May 16, 2006, 10:46 PM
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this is the greatest thread ever!!
it makes me think about Riemers ranch here in Austin, hard to decide which are worse to deal with...the dogs, or the goats. See, the place used to be a goat ranch, and there are still a few roaming around, particularly at the top of one wall, where they have a nasty habit of biting long hair, or stealing brightly colored hats just before you top out.
A few have bells around there necks, which is good b/c you know to be carefull as you top out, but also adds to the difficulty of the climb....like 5.10b-g (g for goat ofcourse)
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rngrchad
May 16, 2006, 10:52 PM
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Webster's definition of a SPORT CRAG:
A dog park with a cliff backdrop :lol:
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