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curt
Dec 17, 2006, 3:31 AM
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jimdavis wrote: And your one of the most arrogant prick(s) on this site.
Arrogant? Perhaps, but at least I don't combine that with incompetence--like you.
jimdavis wrote: I don't need to defend myself to you Curt, I've impressed enough people I've met personally, that anything you have to say in your pot-shot posts has little value to me. Jim
You must know a lot of people who are easily impressed.
Curt
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jimdavis
Dec 17, 2006, 3:38 AM
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curt wrote: jimdavis wrote: And your one of the most arrogant prick(s) on this site. Arrogant? Perhaps, but at least I don't combine that with incompetence--like you. jimdavis wrote: I don't need to defend myself to you Curt, I've impressed enough people I've met personally, that anything you have to say in your pot-shot posts has little value to me. Jim You must know a lot of people who are easily impressed. Curt
Your gonna have to argue a different route than incompetence, Curt. I, unlike you, have spent the time and money to be trained and evaluated by multiple professionals. Guess the rest of us have to just take you at your word. Forgive me if your word means nothing to me.
I will consider you the foremost expert on the foot-belay though.
Jim
(This post was edited by jimdavis on Dec 17, 2006, 3:40 AM)
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curt
Dec 17, 2006, 3:44 AM
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jimdavis wrote: ...Only a short-sighted fool would both assume that the list in an ONLINE profile is complete and an accurate depiction of one's ability, as well as to assume that the difficulty at which one climbs has anything to do with their knowledge as a climber.
Yeah, right--I'm sure your extreme modesty has caused you to omit all the hardcore ascents you have done in your exalted climbing career. Nice job on redpointing the 5.4, by the way. Too bad you didn't get the flash. Haha.
Anyway, the topic of this thread was Mad Rock climbing shoes. Sorry, but if you don't climb at least to some respectable technical standard, you are totally unqualified to assess the ultimate performance of any given shoe. You being knowledgeable as a climber is a total joke. You're clueless. Worse yet (by far) is that you try to act otherwise.
jimdavis wrote: Perhaps a well known quote is worth repeating..."The best climber is the one having the most fun." I'm sure you can debate the merit of that statement at your next mensa meeting.
Well, I certainly won't be running into you there. Are you having fun yet?
Curt
(This post was edited by curt on Dec 17, 2006, 4:08 AM)
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curt
Dec 17, 2006, 3:50 AM
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angry wrote: jimdavis wrote: And your one of the most arrogant prick on this site. As for a clueless gumby...who's the genius that tried to argue that a Reebok is a good belay device? That thread was nothing short of brilliant.
Thanks--I'm quite proud of that one. Oh, by the way, they were Merrells, Jim. Only a fucking lunatic would try to belay with Reeboks.
Curt
(This post was edited by curt on Dec 17, 2006, 4:08 AM)
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jimdavis
Dec 17, 2006, 3:52 AM
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curt wrote: [ You being knowledgeable as climber is a total joke. You're clueless. Worse yet (by far) is that you try to act otherwise.
No, I have a pretty good idea about things, Curt. And if your gonna try and call me clueless....at least try and remember the "a" before "climber".
Tell me though, Curt...how is it that you have any idea what I really know? You know, being that you have never met me personally, nor anyone who I ever worked with/ climbed with?
Oh, that's right...you just always assume you're correct about everything...a trend we see in your posts. Don't let me step in now after you've made it up past 10,000 posts in which haven't been wrong yet, and let you know that your not God's gift to climbing...nor the internet.
Jim
(This post was edited by jimdavis on Dec 17, 2006, 3:54 AM)
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jimdavis
Dec 17, 2006, 3:55 AM
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curt wrote: angry wrote: jimdavis wrote: And your one of the most arrogant prick on this site. As for a clueless gumby...who's the genius that tried to argue that a Reebok is a good belay device? That thread was nothing short of brilliant. Thanks--I'm quite proud of that one. Oh, by the way, they we Merrells, Jim. Only a fucking lunatic would try to belay with Reeboks.
Curt
Thanks for clearing that up, Curt! What ever was I thinking?
(This post was edited by jimdavis on Dec 17, 2006, 3:57 AM)
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curt
Dec 17, 2006, 3:59 AM
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jimdavis wrote: Tell me though, Curt...how is it that you have any idea what I really know? You know, being that you have never met me personally, nor anyone who I ever worked with/ climbed with? Jim
That's a fair question, Jim. In all honesty, you could actually know what you're talking about, but just hide it extremely well.
Curt
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secretninja
Dec 17, 2006, 4:29 AM
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jimdavis wrote: medicus wrote: I have an entire sport climbing rack. I have much more than just "gym" gear. I was saying customer service wasn't important to me with the intent of saying that as a beginner, I just wanted to get a cheap pair of shoes that would get me through my first few months. As for the "talking out of your ass comment," I believe he said that because you said you had previously had no direct contact with Joe, and then you said that direct contact with customer service is very important to you. I only find offense with the way it seems that you are talking down to me. Sorry dude, but a set of draws doesn't constitute a rack, it's gym gear. When you start researching every cam, nut, hex, etc on the market....then we can talk. I posted my opinions about Joe due to what I saw on these boards. I contacted his customer service dept about his behavior...they backed him, I know what I think about them. The support I get from companies is important. How Madrock (the user, and considering that the company supported his actions, the company as well) treats their customers is unacceptable to me. Most every other company I've worked with has been extreemly helpful. So what I said is true, it wasn't 1 specific personal interaction between Joe and I that caused me to speak up, it was the image he gave his company. However, how a company treats its customers, is important to me....so, where's the confussion with what I've said? Jim
Just our of curiousity, when was the last time you brought in an outside a set of draws and used them in a gym? SOmething smells ripe and it a'int the daisies...
(This post was edited by secretninja on Dec 17, 2006, 4:32 AM)
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jimdavis
Dec 17, 2006, 4:31 AM
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secretninja wrote: jimdavis wrote: medicus wrote: I have an entire sport climbing rack. I have much more than just "gym" gear. I was saying customer service wasn't important to me with the intent of saying that as a beginner, I just wanted to get a cheap pair of shoes that would get me through my first few months. As for the "talking out of your ass comment," I believe he said that because you said you had previously had no direct contact with Joe, and then you said that direct contact with customer service is very important to you. I only find offense with the way it seems that you are talking down to me. Sorry dude, but a set of draws doesn't constitute a rack, it's gym gear. When you start researching every cam, nut, hex, etc on the market....then we can talk. I posted my opinions about Joe due to what I saw on these boards. I contacted his customer service dept about his behavior...they backed him, I know what I think about them. The support I get from companies is important. How Madrock (the user, and considering that the company supported his actions, the company as well) treats their customers is unacceptable to me. Most every other company I've worked with has been extreemly helpful. So what I said is true, it wasn't 1 specific personal interaction between Joe and I that caused me to speak up, it was the image he gave his company. However, how a company treats its customers, is important to me....so, where's the confussion with what I've said? Jim Just our of curiousity, when was the last time you brought in an outside a set of draws and used them in a gym?
the last time I lead in a gym, i did.
Jim
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heximp
Dec 17, 2006, 4:59 AM
Post #37 of 87
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Back to the subject,
I liked my Mad Rocks, they just wore out too quick. Yet for the price they are going for, you can't go wrong. It is a very descent shoe for the price.
Yet if I was looking for a quality shoe...
I love my Acopa's. They have lasted, plus the rubber has remained sticky through their lifetime. Plus, now that the high tops are out... I am in heaven.
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curt
Dec 17, 2006, 5:03 AM
Post #38 of 87
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jimdavis wrote: ...the last time I lead in a gym, i did. Jim
Priceless. Did you redpoint the 5.5 green route?
Curt
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jimdavis
Dec 17, 2006, 5:18 AM
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curt wrote: jimdavis wrote: ...the last time I lead in a gym, i did. Jim Priceless. Did you redpoint the 5.5 green route? Curt
No, I dogged all over it. My Madrocks held me back.
Jim
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miavzero
Dec 17, 2006, 5:24 AM
Post #40 of 87
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jimdavis wrote: I, unlike you, have spent the time and money to be trained and evaluated by multiple professionals.
Jim,
Would you please read this to yourself.
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miavzero
Dec 17, 2006, 5:34 AM
Post #41 of 87
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jimdavis wrote: medicus wrote: I have an entire sport climbing rack. I have much more than just "gym" gear. I was saying customer service wasn't important to me with the intent of saying that as a beginner, I just wanted to get a cheap pair of shoes that would get me through my first few months. As for the "talking out of your ass comment," I believe he said that because you said you had previously had no direct contact with Joe, and then you said that direct contact with customer service is very important to you. I only find offense with the way it seems that you are talking down to me. Sorry dude, but a set of draws doesn't constitute a rack, it's gym gear. When you start researching every cam, nut, hex, etc on the market....then we can talk...
You are an elitist prick. Didn't he refer to his rack as a sport rack?
You paid Mark Synott to teach you to climb, he is one hell of a nice person, why not pay him to teach you some manners?
(This post was edited by miavzero on Dec 17, 2006, 5:36 AM)
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jimdavis
Dec 17, 2006, 5:59 AM
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miavzero wrote: Jim, You are an elitist prick. Didn't he refer to his rack as a sport rack? You paid Mark Synott to teach you to climb, he is one hell of a nice person, why not pay him to teach you some manners?
Sorry, but I don't consider the term "rack" to much apply to sport climbing.
Your right, Mark is a world class guy. I've know him for 4 years, and he's been nothing but helpfull, accomidating and a ton of fun to hang out with.
Perhaps you missed how the posters length of experience, as well as amount of gear purchased/ customer service requested was of relevance, when the comment was made.
Funny how I get the red card for manners, considering who else is involved in the thread.
Jim
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pjdf
Dec 17, 2006, 6:30 AM
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climbsomething wrote: akaerik21 wrote: and if it makes a difference he's mainly going to do bouldering and hes 6' if that means anything Oh, 6 feet is he? Good thing you mentioned that. I was going to suggest the La Sportiva Muira but that has been known to spontaneously combust on people taller than 5'6. Better go with a 5.10 slipper.
Come on, climbsomething; are you trying to rip him off? You know that 5.10 are named that way for a reason. At 6', there's no way he'll ever fit into them. Even if he's 5'11", no go--you really would have thought they would have designed their line of shoes for more than one particular height. 
On a more serious note, I will talk briefly about my personal experience with Mad Rock shoes. I have had three pair of Mugen (all the old style), and have found them to wear more quickly than the 5.10 shoes that I have had for similar amounts of time. One possibility is that I have used the Mad Rocks more in the gym, since I have always bought them as inexpensive gym shoes, though they did fit well enough that I ended up using them for a fair bit of sport climbing and bouldering. I feel, though I have no proof, that this is not the only effect, and that they do wear faster than many other shoes; in particular, the second rubber density around the toes disappeared fast for me, and the more recent pair I actually wore all the way through the rubber around the toes. As a result, I have recently shifted to Evolvs and La Sportivas for both my outdoor and gym shoes, both for better fit (obviously very individual) and in the hopes of having shoes which last longer. In the past, I found a tradeoff of shorter lifetime for less money advantageous; at this point, I have decided to go the opposite route.
I believe the most important thing with climbing shoes is fit, so would suggest that your friend tries on shoes before he buys anything. I disagree with bues, as I purchased an expensive pair of shoes for my first pair (5.10 Huecos), and they served me very well for 5 years through 2 resoles (retiring them this year was rather sad). However, those were shoes used mainly for cracks and trad climbing, so I would not have wanted them as tightly fit as I would a sport climbing or bouldering shoe. However, I don't believe that going with an inexpensive shoe like one of the Mad Rocks is a bad idea, and have pointed a few beginner friends towards similarly priced shoes myself.
In terms of fit, I tend to tell people who are just beginning that they should have their toes just starting to curl; I find that often gets to a point of decent fit without putting them in so much pain that they don't want to climb. Make sure that he is aware that unlined, real leather shoes may stretch, whereas lined leather shoes and synthetic leather will stretch less or not at all. Hope this rather long-winded post has been a little helpful.
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curt
Dec 17, 2006, 6:22 PM
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jimdavis wrote: miavzero wrote: Jim, You are an elitist prick. Didn't he refer to his rack as a sport rack? You paid Mark Synott to teach you to climb, he is one hell of a nice person, why not pay him to teach you some manners? ...Funny how I get the red card for manners, considering who else is involved in the thread. Jim
Actually, it makes perfect sense to most people.
Curt
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emptybottles
Dec 17, 2006, 7:09 PM
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I've got the Flashs. Been climbing in them for about two and a half months in a gym. I actually bought a full size bigger than my shoe size. Why, I don't know. They've stretched out a bit, and I need to crank the straps pretty tight if I'm on a real techy route. But they're comfortable, they're easy to get on and off, and they work great for heel hooks and smearing. Edging and toeing, not so great, but adequate, and actually I've been having to focus on my footwork more because of that. I'm sure if I had some very rigid shoes that could edge on anything, I wouldn't need to hone my bodypositioning and balance as carefully as I do sometimes. All in all I like them, and am not looking for a new shoe anytime soon. I haven't had any durability issues yet, but again, I've only been climbing in them since the beggining of October. They were relatively cheap, comfortable, and don't smell awful yet. They do bleed my feet orange after every session, doesn't matter to me but I bet I've gotten some stares on the street afterwards.
Hope that helps.
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jimdavis
Dec 17, 2006, 8:02 PM
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curt wrote: jimdavis wrote: miavzero wrote: Jim, You are an elitist prick. Didn't he refer to his rack as a sport rack? You paid Mark Synott to teach you to climb, he is one hell of a nice person, why not pay him to teach you some manners? ...Funny how I get the red card for manners, considering who else is involved in the thread. Jim Actually, it makes perfect sense to most people. Curt
This from a guy who wished a fellow RC.com'er had been shot in the face, while being robbed at gun-point. And why did you say that again, Curt? Oh yeah, their grammer wasn't perfect.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
curt wrote: In reply to: Curt youre on of life's true idiots It's "you're" and "one" Einstein. Oh, and a period is nice at the end of a sentence, genius. Jesus, it's too bad the guy didn't just pull the trigger. Curt
I'm done with you, Curt....you wanna argue more, do it over PM and let them debate the shoes.
Jim
(This post was edited by jimdavis on Dec 17, 2006, 8:12 PM)
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curt
Dec 17, 2006, 8:44 PM
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jimdavis wrote: curt wrote: jimdavis wrote: miavzero wrote: Jim, You are an elitist prick. Didn't he refer to his rack as a sport rack? You paid Mark Synott to teach you to climb, he is one hell of a nice person, why not pay him to teach you some manners? ...Funny how I get the red card for manners, considering who else is involved in the thread. Jim Actually, it makes perfect sense to most people. Curt This from a guy who wished a fellow RC.com'er had been shot in the face, while being robbed at gun-point. And why did you say that again, Curt? Oh yeah, their grammer wasn't perfect. Jim
That comment was made in jest--being pretty sure (at the time) that the OP was a troll. I later apologized. Now, I'm beginning to think you are also a troll, because nobody could actually be as dense in real-life as you appear to be here. Have fun redpointing your 5.4s and impersonating a knowledgeable climber on the internet.
In summary, you are a wonderful example to other new climbers here at RC.com of what not to become. You lack any meaningful climbing experience or ability and thus your entire collection of "knowledge" comes from either what some "trained individuals" told you--or what you read in books. The obvious problem is that you're such a n00b that you have absolutely no way of evaluating if what you are hearing or reading is correct.
You continue to hold yourself out here as someone who is qualified to give advice to others--when the best thing for everyone concerned would be for you to simply remain silent and try to learn something yourself.
Curt
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jimdavis
Dec 17, 2006, 9:54 PM
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Curt, when you can prove that something I do when I'm out climbing is unsafe, or just plain wrong...then I'll take what you've said into consideration. Until then your just taking shots in the dark.
In the mean time, you do nothing but offer hostility and "STFU n00b" comments to users on this site...contributing nothing informative to anyone. The biggest contribution you have yet to make to this site has been the advocation of a foot belay. :LOL:
You a middle aged man, who feels the need to respond at length about the inexperience of others whom you've never met, purely because your intelligence or wit feels challenged. You're bitter, arrogant, insecure, and have yet to offer anything on this site that would indicate that you have the faintest clue about rigging any climbing systems. The only card you have to play is your age, and your number of years spent climbing.
Go buy a red sports car, date a girl half your age, post thousands of negative comments on here about how "n00bs need to STFU!" whatever you need to do to prove yourself to the world. Your message is lost on me...as you have nothing to offer except assumptions you can never prove.
Jim
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cmacblue42
Dec 17, 2006, 10:22 PM
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alright, to help the poster out, for your first pair of shoes, your 1st priority is fit andf then comes price. there are a number of shoes that will fit you well. My first pair were a 60 dollar pair of cheap and stiff montrails i got on sale at rei. they served my purpose. they got me into climbing and made me get used to developing technique so my foot work wouldn't suck later on and helped me get my feet strong enough so i wouldnt feel i was dying when i made my next shoe purchase, which were a pair of 5.10 moccs, which are soft and will improve your foot muscles greatly.
for your first pair of shoes, i wouldn't care what brand you got, as long as it wont fall apart in your first couple months climbing, fit well, and are at a price you are willing to pay.
For fit, it depends on synthetic or leather. leather stretches, synthetic doesnt, but it does "mold" to your foot. Make sure you get them snug, as in, you shouldnt be able to wiggle your toes, maybe even have them bent a little (cuz they will stretch if they are leather), but dont get them tight like a performance shoe where you want your toes to be bent after they stretch. I would also reccomend a pair of lace ups, that way you can fine tune your fit as it stretches and keep it climbable and comfortable.
As far as mad rock vs. evolv after your first pair, i have always liked evolv and how they handle buisness. I do not like how some of mad rock's selling points seem like gimmicks to me. for example, the toothed heel seems like it would actually lessen rubber contact with rock instead of improve it. The dual rubber thing on the sole also seems like a gimmick because the idea is that you have hard durable rubber for edging arong the outside of the shoe, but soft rubber for smearing toward the center of the sole. 1st off, i dont see how you will get the soft rubber to smear if it is elevated. i think the concept is a good one (the idea of a stiff frame embeded inside the rubber, and a level sole with the 2 kinds of rubber) but the currect design doesnt make sense.
bottom line, buy someting that fits well and inexpensive for your first shoe.
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curt
Dec 17, 2006, 11:04 PM
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jimdavis wrote: ... You a middle aged man, who feels the need to respond at length about the inexperience of others whom you've never met, purely because your intelligence or wit feels challenged. You're bitter, arrogant, insecure... Jim
My Australian Cattle Dog challenges my intelligence more than you do, Jim. Also, I'm afraid you're not any more of a psychologist than you are a climber. Congratulations on now demonstrating incompetence in multiple disciplines.
"Why people fail to recognize their own incompetence
David Dunning1, Kerri Johnson, Joyce Ehrlinger and Justin Kruger
Successful negotiation of everyday life would seem to require people to possess insight about deficiencies in their intellectual and social skills. However, people tend to be blissfully unaware of their incompetence. This lack of awareness arises because poor performers are doubly cursed: Their lack of skill deprives them not only of the ability to produce correct responses, but also of the expertise necessary to surmise that they are not producing them. People base their perceptions of performance, in part, on their preconceived notions about their skills. Because these notions often do not correlate with objective performance, they can lead people to make judgments about their performance that have little to do with actual accomplishment."
Since you obviously fall into the category they are referencing, I'll spell it out for you. They're talking about you.
Curt
(This post was edited by curt on Dec 17, 2006, 11:33 PM)
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