It’s not "a" hand. It’s "the" hand. Where is "the" is your right hand (if belaying right handed). It’s ok to use the secondary hand to hold onto the rope well you advance your brake hand but at no point should the brake hand ever leave the rope. It’s a hell of a lot harder catching a lead fall when you’re holding on the rope with the hand you never catch falls with. Now as one advances and they have 300 lead fall catches under their belt, some things can change.

....
As for the first bolded part, that's the standard method in Europe but of course we can't climb right, I mean we use singl clove hitches as safety. As for the second it doesn't there's no such thing as the brake hand the brake hand is whatever hand is holding onto the break strand.

Do a bit of travelling, pic up some new techniques.

What we are really arguing about is is it ok to alternate which hand you have on the brake strand or if you have to consistently use the same hand.

now you're just arguing about what the definition of brake hand is.

in america (for the most part) brake hand = a predetermined hand that will never leave the brake strand

in europe (i guess Australia too) brake hand = whichever hand is holding the rope.

both sides agree that your brake hand (by whichever definition you use) must never leave the brake strand. What we are really arguing about is is it ok to alternate which hand you have on the brake strand or if you have to consistently use the same hand.

continue on....

side note: seriously, all the techniques are pretty much the same, if you know one, you should easily be able to switch in between em. its not like it takes a lot of practice. Plus you're in a gym, just do it how they want. when you go outside, do whatever the fuck you want.

BTW, in answer to an earlier note about grabbing an out of control rope, slap the back of your belay hand against the climber's rope and slide your hand down onto your device, and mash your hand onto the loose rope, against your device. You can stop it, although you will lose some skin.

Even though I have no idea what that means, I know that it is wrong.

Jay

The belayer's hand that holds the rope coming from the climber, which is known as the feeling hand, is used to pay the rope in and out. The other hand, known as the braking hand, must never let go of its grip on the rope, remaining ready to catch a fall at any time. It is important to maintain the correct tension on the rope, preventing excess slack, anticipating the climber's movements and needs, letting out rope as the climber moves up or clips into protection, or taking rope in as needed.

With some practice, a belayer can learn to quickly take in or let out rope as required while never removing the braking hand from the rope. A specific sequence of hand motions is used to take in the rope.

...

The braking hand must never leave the rope.

From Mountaineering: Freedom Of The Hills

The fact that you referred to the mountaineers bible - written by a group of professional mountaineers over the course of FIFTY years - as a "book for n00bs" is astounding to me.

Introductory texts in most any field are written by experts; the texts are nonetheless entry level. As far as the text being written over the course of fifty years, well, maybe that's why it's always out-of-date. They keep coming out with new editions, but never seem to actually catch up. Makes you wonder why they bother.

Who wants to climb a "hill," anyway.

Jay

This hefty tome, first published in 1960, was the book that started The Mountaineers Books. Known as "the climber's bible," it covers virtually all aspects of climbing, from choosing equipment and tying knots to basic rappelling techniques and expedition planning. There are sections on rock climbing, alpine climbing, emergency prevention and response and snow cycles, along with appendices on wind chill temperatures and suggestions for further reading. This seventh edition, written by a team of more than 40 expert climbers, reflects changes in equipment and technique, with new chapters on waterfall ice climbing and mixed climbing, physical conditioning, and land stewardship issues. It's also enhanced with 415 new illustrations depicting the "chimney technique" and the "twin-rope technique," among other maneuvers, and a new "ten essentials" list. Although the prose is workmanlike at best ("understanding fall factor and how it determines impact forces is fundamental to safe leading"), this work remains a must-have for climbing enthusiasts.

Since publication of the first edition in 1960, Mountaineering: The Freedom of the Hills has endured as THE classic mountaineering text. Novice climbers use it as a primer; veterans use it to review their skills.

...

The more than forty contributors to Freedom 7 are all active climbers who regularly use and teach the skills about which they write. They have also incorporated comments and suggestions from veteran climbers around the world. This is a resource trusted by mountaineering communities everywhere.

Whether you are an aspiring mountaineer or a professional guide, this is one book that fits in your library and will continue to get serious use. Not only is this a classic in terms of its definitive instruction, it is also up-to-date.

It’s not "a" hand. It’s "the" hand. Where is "the" is your right hand (if belaying right handed). It’s ok to use the secondary hand to hold onto the rope well you advance your brake hand but at no point should the brake hand ever leave the rope. It’s a hell of a lot harder catching a lead fall when you’re holding on the rope with the hand you never catch falls with. Now as one advances and they have 300 lead fall catches under their belt, some things can change.

Who would want to climb "hills"? I guess anyone who enjoys the outdoors... Me personally, I simply enjoy the challenge, exercise, endurance required, and experiences gained. Same reason I like climbing "rocks".

And it is hardly just an introductory or beginners text, and is hardly out-of-date. Next.

Appeal to authority, lives in Utah. I think we can guess the rest.

Jay

I doubt you could guess the rest. ;) I would love to hear an attempt though. I could make some assumptions about your alleged lack of humility, but I'm not actually arrogant enough to do so.

There are 50 posts in this thread containing more sophisticated and thoughtful responses to the OP than your mindless quoting from a book for n00bs. In the future, you can save yourself some embarrassment by actually reading the thread before posting. Checking the date of the last post wouldn't exactly hurt either.

Jay

M:FOTH is more of an encyclopedia than a bible. You can get an overview of climbing basics but it's better to look elsewhere for specific information. The rock climbing section is pretty bare bones and general IMO.

M:FOTH is more of an encyclopedia than a bible. You can get an overview of climbing basics but it's better to look elsewhere for specific information. The rock climbing section is pretty bare bones and general IMO.

If you want a more professional aspect, AMGA courses teach the BUS method (as far as I've seen). Since they're a partner of the CWA (Climbing Wall Association), I'd say it's pretty safe bet that the BUS method is acceptable. The justification that is given when people ask is that it keeps the brake strand locked off more often and the hand is biomechanically stronger in a palms down orientation. Whethere that's a fact or just trickle down information from policy makers I don't know.

And I only went on to credit the book because Jay pointed it out as a book for n00bs and an out-of-date reference. Both of these are utterly false.

You don't need to have critical thinking skills to lack religion nor do you have to live in Utah to have religion.

And on your either/or fallacy: you are wrong - as I suspected - on both points.